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Thread: Plushenko will honour us with his presence in 2010!

  1. #91
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    To be an Olympic champion, you don't have to skate well. You just have to skate better than the other guys.
    and we have a winner!



    His has the respect of his fans and he is known outside the strict circles of fs fans. He is mentionned everywhere legendary athletes are mentionned and has the respect of great figure skaters,one night that you dont skate your best doesnt cancel your impact on the sport since you were still far above the rest. Me, I prefer that someone at the end of a long career won his Olympic Medal, than the ones who skated for one- two seasons, had a great night, took the Gold medal and left the sport, who I still respect their win but not more than Plush because he was not as people expected him to be.
    Last edited by seniorita; 03-16-2009 at 10:35 AM.

  2. #92
    Loving pairs, dance and figure skating mycelticblessing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    To be an Olympic champion, you don't have to skate well. You just have to skate better than the other guys.
    So true! Most of the elite men were really not at their best at the Olympics. Many of the top skaters had errors in their SP and I recall one of the Eurosport commentators saying "It's almost like no one wants a medal anymore."

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    I don't know what we're discussing here. For me it was always obvious that Yagudin and Plushenko were far beyond all the others. And these two made some kind of revolution in men skating cos level of world men competitions was quite weak that time just remember their rivals - Stojko, Weiss, Eldredge and later Goebel and Joubert. Yagudin and Plush demonstrated another level of artistry, passion and choreo. And they built a bridge to nowdays men FS, to Lysacek, Johnny, Lambiel, Chan, Oda etc. That's it.

  4. #94
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fashionista View Post
    I don't know what we're discussing here. For me it was always obvious that Yagudin and Plushenko were far beyond all the others. And these two made some kind of revolution in men skating cos level of world men competitions was quite weak that time just remember their rivals - Stojko, Weiss, Eldredge and later Goebel and Joubert. Yagudin and Plush demonstrated another level of artistry, passion and choreo. And they built a bridge to nowdays men FS, to Lysacek, Johnny, Lambiel, Chan, Oda etc. That's it.
    You made some good points but I disagree with part of your argument. As I see it, Yagudin and Plushenko did push figure skating forward, and were very strong in their ability to blend top-notch technical content with great presentation. I disgaree with your assretion that Yagudin and Plushenko "demonstrated another level of artistry, passion and choreo", however. They didn't - there were always great artists and passionate skaters. There have also been other skaters who could blend artistry and technical content (Browning, for example). But having two rivals who were that good meant they constantly had to work to improve and grow as skaters.

    Personally, I thought Yagudin's presentation was better, and that Plushenko peaked well before his gold medal winning performance. But I recognize both as superb performers, and Plushenko is probably the most consistent skater I've seen - ever.

    I also find it strange to see Joubert in the "weak competitors" group and Lambiel in the "new group", considering Lambiel was skating seniors before Joubert did, and that Joubert only competed against Yagudin for one season. Stojko, Weiss and Eldredge are more relevant comparisons as they actually competed against both Yags and Plush for several years. I would argue that Lambiel and Joubert were the strongest guys in the field leading up to Torino (other than Plush, of course), where neither really delivered. Brian's breakthrough as an elite skater came earlier than Stephane's, but that's about it.

    "And they built a bridge to nowdays men FS, to Lysacek, Johnny, Lambiel, Chan, Oda etc." is also strange to me. Evan Lysacek is a very good skater but great artistry and choreo is not what I would associate with him. Chan's not there yet, technically. And Lambiel was a contemporary of Plushenko and Yagudin, as I already noted. Lysacek and Johnny are not great CoP skaters, and neither of them are complete skaters the way Plush and Yags were. I would say that the closest of the recently retired/current guys to that standard are Brian, Dai and Stephane. Once Chan gets the 3A really consistent and gets in a quad, he's there too - artistically he already is, of course. Oda is too much of a wildcard.
    Last edited by Buttercup; 03-16-2009 at 01:02 PM.

  5. #95
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    I saw Yagudin as having a one-time peak performance in 2002 Olys, Never before. But he deserved that win. No other.

    I saw Plushenko as a dull unpolished skate performer in 2006 Olys who actually looked bored himself while skating. Maybe Gregory/Petruchov will give him the ability to become an overall good skater other than just a jumper. JMO.

  6. #96
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I saw Yagudin as having a one-time peak performance in 2002 Olys, Never before.
    You're a hard man to please, Joe.

    In the years 1998-2002 Yagudin won four world championships, three Europeans, three Grand Prix Finals and twelve individual Grand Prix events. His perfomance at the Olympics was outstanding, but he had many other outstnding performances during that span.

    Of his world championship performancves, only in 2000 was he not up to par. Besides the Olympics, he gave several equally good performances of both Winter and The Man in the Iron Mask. He also gave memorable performances of Gladiator, Broken Arrow, Overcome and Lawrence of Arabia. (Not to mention Racing, but I can see where that program might not be everybody's cup of tea.)

    And who can forget One Banana -- however hard we try.

    I saw Plushenko as a dull unpolished skate performer in 2006 Olys who actually looked bored himself while skating.
    Again, I think we need to evaluate Plushenko's entire body of work, not just make a judgment about one performance,

    I think we should remember that in the Olympic year he was worn out both mentally and physically, he was fighting multiple injuries, recovering from surgery, and basically just trying to hold himself together to somehow get through one last skate at Torino. In this respect he was in the same position as Michelle Kwan.

    I do think that his attutude going into the 2006 Olympics was, please just let me hit my quads so I can get my medal and go home.

    As it turned out no-one else really brought their A game and Plushenko, even at half strength, looked like a man among boys.
    Last edited by Mathman; 03-16-2009 at 02:55 PM.

  7. #97
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    In 2002 I was so fascinated by the rival of yag vs plush that i wanted any of the two to win. Of course Yag was better. Having seen his performance now after some years, I think he didnt skate that passionate, at least thats how I feel when watching it in youtube, he seemed too concetrated in his work. Of course then it looked super-wow with the excitement and the commentators and stuff, and mostly for his emotional breakdown afterwards, but then his Worlds after Olympics were truly amazing, and mostly I remember that performance of Iron Mask. My fav Yagudin program is Broken Arrow. And Winter of course.
    I m not saying it has anything to do with how plushenko skated in 2006 Lp, I cant compare anyway, different times, rivals and attitude against the Olympics. I also believe Plushy skated Carmen miles more enthusiastic and risked more with the fear to not medal at all in 2002 than his Godfather, but if i have to choose between enthusiastic Plushenko with no Gold and conservative one with Gold, i prefer the second cause he really had been through a lot to win it and he deserved it.
    Banana and Baby sex Bomb are the programs that make me wish youtube didnt exist!

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    Where were Lambiel, Joubert, Buttle, Weir, Lysacek, and Takahashi - all those big names in 2006 Olympics - during those years of Yagudin-Plushenko rivalry? Plushenko was there on the top and stayed there on the top for all those years while Lambiel, Buttle gradually worked their way up, Joubert, Weir, Lysacek, and Takahashi emerged in different time. Yes, Plushenko's performances in 2006 Olympics were disappointing but that doesn't change his superior position in the history in his time. No matter how you slice it, the judges' decision has reflected that nature.

  9. #99
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    You're a hard man to please, Joe.

    In the years 1998-2002 Yagudin won four world championships, three Europeans, three Grand Prix Finals and twelve individual Grand Prix events. His perfomance at the Olympics was outstanding, but he had many other outstnding performances during that span.

    :Again, I think we need to evaluate Plushenko's entire body of work, not just make a judgment about one performance,
    I just never sat up for Yagudin when Kulic was around not to mention Stoiko, and you know that I do speak well of skaters with or without medals. I do not need a judge for that. Abt and Klimkin were better skaters in that earlier era, for me. But I cannot deny Yag's great 2006 Oly skate. Super!

    I always acknowledge Plushenko's agility when it comes to Jumps even when the overall skate performance doesn't get to me. I feel that way even when thinking about his entire body of work including the many clownish Exhibitions. Even if he returns to competitive skating, I will be more interested in seeing how the judges score him than actually watching him skate. One has to wonder how he gets such high Levels and GoEs beyond jumping. increible. and, of course, those legions of fans who eat that up.

  10. #100
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    I eat ice cream
    It 's fun watching ancient skating videos with english commentary that i have missed in local tv, I was watching Yag's cup of russia 1997 and there was a review of russian women between Slutskaya and Sokolova and about Bobek and Bonaly and who would be Olympic champ, then the presenter said :the new rising talent Yag will probably be the 1998 OC since Urmanov is injured, but if you wanna see the superstar of the future watch for the 15 y e.plushenko!
    plushkiss!
    Last edited by seniorita; 03-16-2009 at 07:18 PM.

  11. #101
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    where were Lambiel, Buttle......

    Quote Originally Posted by jennylovskt View Post
    Where were Lambiel, Joubert, Buttle, Weir, Lysacek, and Takahashi - all those big names in 2006 Olympics - during those years of Yagudin-Plushenko rivalry? Plushenko was there on the top and stayed there on the top for all those years while Lambiel, Buttle gradually worked their way up, Joubert, Weir, Lysacek, and Takahashi emerged in different time. Yes, Plushenko's performances in 2006 Olympics were disappointing but that doesn't change his superior position in the history in his time. No matter how you slice it, the judges' decision has reflected that nature.
    I can tell you where jeff Buttle was, winning the bronze medal at the 2006 Olympics.

  12. #102
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Petruchov
    Petukhov....

    sorry just had to correct that one

  13. #103
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    Originally Posted by Mathman
    You're a hard man to please, Joe.

    In the years 1998-2002 Yagudin won four world championships, three Europeans, three Grand Prix Finals and twelve individual Grand Prix events. His perfomance at the Olympics was outstanding, but he had many other outstnding performances during that span.

    :Again, I think we need to evaluate Plushenko's entire body of work, not just make a judgment about one performance

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I just never sat up for Yagudin when Kulic was around not to mention Stoiko, and you know that I do speak well of skaters with or without medals. I do not need a judge for that. Abt and Klimkin were better skaters in that earlier era, for me. But I cannot deny Yag's great 2006 Oly skate. Super!.
    I will have to agree with Mathman here, Joe. Yagudin had other exquisite wins in career beside the SLC 2002 Olympics.
    For me, his "Lawrence of Arabia" program which won his second world title means even more, because it was following a fresh injury he was struggling with all week long.
    Just watch this program, which gives me chills even now after 10 years and tell me if you can find any bobbles:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JreQby8Kbug

    Joseph

  14. #104
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    Aaaa Yagudin! I like him too

    I miss Yagudin/Plushenko era. It's too vivid in my memory...
    I think that Yag in 2002 was happy guy. He was won, and he had a rival. Someone said after Turin, Plushenko was lucky because he has no rival. However it's a misunderstanding. "To take a journey without a compasse," it's too hard. I remember, after Yag's retire Plushy said like I feel like I'm in fog. Zero visibility, but continue walking alone.
    Yag and Plushy, I think that they were not only rival but also kind of traveling companion. They had the same goal. Though they never became friends.
    Now I just hope their success in each life

  15. #105
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fashionista View Post
    I don't know what we're discussing here. For me it was always obvious that Yagudin and Plushenko were far beyond all the others. And these two made some kind of revolution in men skating cos level of world men competitions was quite weak that time just remember their rivals - Stojko, Weiss, Eldredge and later Goebel and Joubert. Yagudin and Plush demonstrated another level of artistry, passion and choreo. And they built a bridge to nowdays men FS, to Lysacek, Johnny, Lambiel, Chan, Oda etc. That's it.
    I'm not sure it's fair to have Stojko in the group as their competitors because he was never the same after his groin injury in 1998 - he did manage to ull off two quds in his LP in SLC though which was a great achievement. Having sung Pluschenko's praises for jumps though, Stojko was a better jumper than both Yags and Plush. He may not have been quite as consistent as Plush but the quality of the jumps was much better - the softness of the landings (even on the quad), the running edge and knee bend. The second quad being in the second half of the program, often having a triple lutz and/or triple axel in teh second half of the program too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I just never sat up for Yagudin when Kulic was around
    Well Kulik left after 1998 Olyimpcs in Nagano so he shouldn't have really affected your enjoyment of Yagudin from 1998 worlds onwards!

    Ant

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