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Today is National Pi Day

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Any comments? :biggrin:

Is the Pope Catholic. ;)

There are a couple of points that need to be clarified with regard to the hypersphere model. First, the three-dimensional hypersphere is not compact (closed). This means that the topology of space-time at the big bang is quite strangely singular, with the consequence that the entirety of space-time is not just a four-dimensional hypersphere in this model.

Again, it is our mental pictures that are leading us astray. For a (positively curved) sphere, the cone on a 3-sphere is indeed toplogically equivalent (but not geometrically equivalent -- Steven Hawking proved this in his PdD dissertation under Roger Penrose) to an ordinary four dimensional disc. This is why the Hawking-Hartle Theory of quantum cosmology works so nicely in the case of a sphere, but is problematic in the case of negatively curved spaces.

The spherical version of this model (called deSitter space, or Einstein-deSitter Space) has been around for almost a century. Without trying to predict the results of future data-gathering, I think that this model has pretty much been ruled out by experiement.

In my opinion, a more tractable model (and one that matches better with our mental pictures), would start like this. Take the ordinary three-dimensional hypersphere, with the Poincare metric. Take the quotient of this space by the action of a group of isometries. The resulting model has the same local curvature properties as the original hypersphere, but provides a more satisfactory model (in my opinion), sacrificing only simple conectivity.

Mass somehow distorts the hyperspherical shell, pulling it inward radially.

Scientists have always been puzzled why an object's mass affects not only inertia, but also gravity, and why gravity is pretty much indistinguishable from physical acceleration.

I do not agree that scientists are puzzled by this. Einstein's great insight was not that curvature causes gravitational acceleration. It is that gravity and curvature are different names for the same thing. In general relativity, there is no such thing as the "force" of gravity. Gravity is not a force at all. What we interpret as acceleration due to gravity is just objects following their natural geodesics in curved space.

That is why -- in my opinion -- we will never achieve a theory of quantum gravity. (I eagerly await being proved wrong!)

By the way, this also emphasizes why "intrinsic" curvatue (curvature of the metric tensor) is the right way to approach this topic, rather than "extrinsic" (rubber sheet) curvature. Gauss proved in his famous Theorem Egregium that the two kinds of curvature are formally equivalent. But if we define a geodesic as the "shortest" (or in the case of the space-time interval, the longest) distance between two points, then first we need to define distance.

In the "expanding hypersphere" hypothesis, both mass and motion cause similar time-distortion effects as a simple consequence of geometry. Fast motion and presence of mass both cause a slowing effect, since both resist the "normal" full-speed expansion in the +time dimension.

True, but the "expandimg anything" hypothesis serves just as well. There is no reason why the expanding space-like submnifolds should be hyperspheres rather than any other kind of three-dimensional space.

This cannot be determined by theorizing. It must be verified by hard evidence. Perhaps surprizingly, there is a lot of it, especially from studies of the cosminc background radiation. As much as I wish it were otherwse, so far the Euclidean model is prevailing -- fairly dramatically, actually -- over both the positively curved model, like the sphere, and the miriad negatively curved models, like the hypersphere.

Even if this is right, however, there are still many interesting models that are local Euclidean but have interesting global topological features. Toroidal models, for instance. Again, in principle, all these things can be determined experimentally.

In order to make these ideas into a genuine "hypothesis," this is what we must do.

(1) Descirbe a metric on the hyperspheres (or whatever 3-fold we wish to study), such that this metric

(a) is symmetric and isotropic (and also satifies some other technical conditions called "energy conditions," which basically say that the contibution of matter dominates the "stress" in the fabric of empty space), and

(b) satisfies the Einstein field equations for a distribution of matter that matches what we see in the real universe.

(2) Devise some experiements that will turn out one way if your hypothesis is correct, a different way if a competing hypethesis is correct instead.

If you are seriously interested in investigating these ideas, a good place to get started is The Large Scale Structure of Space-time by Hawking and Ellis (Cambridge Monographs on Mathematical Physics). Start reading in chapter five (exact solutions) and you will see the hypersphere model discussed in context will several others. (Do not read pop science paperbacks, lol.)

Then, if you really want to jump in, go to

http://grtensor.phy.queensu.ca/

and download (for free) a software product called GRTensor. This allows you to create your own universe. Just enter a metric tensor (either one of the standard ones or one of your own invention), hit the button, and GRTensor calculates all the curvature tensors and displays the physical properties of your universe. This is totally cool for amateur dabblers and serious professionals alike.

Beep-beep, this GRTensor product is a pedagogical tool that can be used to introduce exceptionally well-motivated students to the mathematics of general relativity without getting lost in all the calculations. :)
 
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Particle Man

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
I used a hypersphere because it's one of the simplest 4D shapes to conceptualize, and also because circles & spheres etc are the most basic and common forms in the universe. 4-dimensional geometry isn't exactly an easy subject for 3-dimensional creatures. But I think it's a good starting point and illustrates fairly profoundly how a simple 4D structure like this, using time as the radial dimension, easily illustrates how both gravity and relativity are natural and obvious consequences. Perhaps I've missed them, but I've never read theories which could so easily explain not only gravity but also relativity. Maybe they've been out there, but I'm proud to have come up with it independently. :laugh:

Couple more ideas I didn't post yet because I wasn't sure of the body of evidence behind them, but I remember scientists saying "maybe gravity repulses at large distances?" maybe in an attempt to explain why redshift seems to be accelerating? Anyway, perhaps that is already explained with the model itself (accelerating expanding 4D surface) but I was also thinking of a balloon analogy:

Say a balloon is being inflated unrestricted. Naturally it will expand in all directions evenly, equalizing the force as dictated by the shape of its membrane, be it spherical or cylindrical etc. Let's use a sphere for simplicity. Say you place a finger against the balloon. The finger (mass) will cause it to deform, causing the situation I already outlined above for mass & local surface deformation. Fine, done that already. But then say you restrict the balloon in several points, fairly far apart. In addition to the inward deformation at those points, you may also see the area between the restricted points bulging outward, even more than they would in the free case, as the increasing pressure attempts to push outward any way that it can.

So, large masses (say galaxies or galactic clusters) may find the space between them increasing at an even faster rate than normal, as the 4-dimensional "balloon" finds ways to push outward. The pressure which is restricted by their mass is instead relieved in the unrestricted areas in between. Heh.

As far as negative curvature, I'm a bit confused on visualizing that. Are there any 2D or 3D shapes with negative curvature to look to as an analogy? I also have been looking for a program which I heard about a long time ago, I think it even existed back in the 70's. It displayed rotating 4 dimensional images on the screen, and supposedly if you watched them long enough, you would start to be able to visualize 4D geometry. I've never been able to find it though.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
In my post above I misread your model as the one in which the space-like cross sections are (negatively curved) pseudospheres, rather than as positively curved 3-spheres, which I now see is what you intended. Sorry about that.

Perhaps I've missed them, but I've never read theories which could so easily explain not only gravity but also relativity. Maybe they've been out there, but I'm proud to have come up with it independently.

:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

Your model is called the positively curved Friedman-Lematre-Robertson-Walker model. In the 1960s it became more or less the standard cosmological model. It is also called the hot big bang model.

LeMaitre, by the way, was a French priest working as an astronomer in the Vatican. When it was determined in the 1920s that the universe is indeed expanding (Einstein had not considered such a possibility), he immediately noticed the consequences for the state of the universe in earliest times. The more he thought about it, the more he concluded that the way twentieth century cosmologists view the creation and development of the universe is pretty close to the account in Genesis.

If the space-like cross sections really are 3-spheres, this implies that the total amount of matter in the universe must be bigger than a certain amount, called Omega. Ordinary atomic matter only adds up to about 5% of the necessary amount. Dark matter accounts for an additional 23% of Omega, and dark energy about 72%. Miraculously, this adds up to almost exactly 100%. This is taken as evidence that the spatial universe (though expanding in time) is by itself neither positively curved (like a three-sphere), nor negatively curved (like a hyperboloid)

As far as negative curvature, I'm a bit confused on visualizing that. Are there any 2D or 3D shapes with negative curvature to look to as an analogy?

Here is a two-dimensional hyperboloid.

http://enriques.mathematik.uni-mainz.de/vortraege/2001_feb_6/hyperboloid_withLines.jpg

But a better example of negative curvature is the Poincare disc. This looks like a perfectly flat two-dimensional disc lying on a table. No "curvature" is to be seen.

But the curvature is in the metric. The farther away things are drom the center, the greater the distances are between them. Another way to say this, is that if you take a vector of length 1 at the origin and move it to another point, it will be longer. This characterizes "negative intrinsic curvature."

Indeed, it was this example that convinced mathematicians that non-Euclidean geometry was actually possible.

Here is a java aplet that lets you investgate what "straight lines" look like on this negatively curbed surface (the "line between the two blue points is "straight" in the Poincare metric. You can see that if we saw a particle moving along such a line, we would conclude that some "force" is acting on it to make it move like that.)

http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/~crobles/hyperbolic/hypr/modl/pncr/pncrjava.html

Here is a gif that shows what triangles look like on the Poincare disc. All of the triangles that you see are the same size (when measured in the Poincare metric), their sides are straight (although they look curved when viewed by our Euclidean eyes :) ), and the sum of the angles of each triangle is (3/4) Pi = 135 degrees (instead of 180 degrees.)

http://www.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de/~walter/h2vis/H2gridAniLin.gif

Note that all this weird "curvature" behavior is accomplished intrinsically, without any twisting or bending of the disc itself. :) )
 
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SeaniBu

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
If the space-like cross sections really are 3-spheres, this implies that the total amount of matter in the universe must be bigger than a certain amount, called Omega. Ordinary atomic matter only adds up to about 5% of the necessary amount. Dark matter accounts for an additional 23% of Omega, and dark energy about 72%. Miraculously, this adds up to almost exactly 100%. This is taken as evidence that the spatial universe (though expanding in time) is by itself neither positively curved (like a three-sphere), nor negatively curved (like a hyperboloid)

Here is a two-dimensional hyperboloid.

http://enriques.mathematik.uni-mainz.de/vortraege/2001_feb_6/hyperboloid_withLines.jpg

Intoxicating
 
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