ISU backward rankings | Golden Skate

ISU backward rankings

enlight78

Medalist
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
The way isu rank skaters make no sense to me. I think they should just use each skater top 5 international results in year time so the standings will reflect what is currently going on. Instead they use some complex system that take in three years of info.
I decided to look at the events from 3/16/08-3/16/09 and see what the rankings would look like just taking the top 5 results. Here is a top 12 example.Not all skaters have completed 5 internatiol events(Evan).

Gp Gp GPF EC/4CC WC IC IC IC Total


Kozuka 400 360 720 680 574 0 0 0 =2734

Patrick 400 400 525 840 517 0 0 0 =2682

Brian 292 400 0 800 1080 0 0 0 =2572

Jeremy A. 400 292 800 551 418 0 0 0 =2461

Weir 360 360 648 0 972 0 0 0 =2340

Kevin Vd.P. 0 236 0 680 709 0 225 250 =2100

Tomas 324 360 583 496 275 0 0 0 =2038

Oda 0 400 0 612 0 250 250 250 =1762

Ponsero 292 324 0 612 200 0 0 250 =1678

Contesti 0 0 0 756 0 250 225 225 =1456

Alban 324 324 0 551 0 0 0 225 =1424

Evan 324 324 0 756 0 0 0 0 =1404

http://www.isufs.org/ws/wsmen.htm
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Very interesting. For comparison, here are the actual ISU rankings at the moment.

Vernor
Van der Perren
Joubert
Takahashi
Weir
Chan
Lysacek
Lambiel
Kozuka
Rippon
Oda
Ponsero
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I think the ISU wants to have all the top skaters at the GPs and therefore the Rankings were part of the scheme of things. it worked and we can thank the ISU for that.

As for the actual Rankings as well as the Personal Bests, I take them with bicarbonate of soda.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
It will be interesting to see hpw the ranking change after worlds.

I thnk Enlight's rankings are more in line with the way the ISU determines "seasons rankings" for the big prize money at the end.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Mathman, Are they giving out that season's end prize money this year? If so, it does cause one to wonder where they are going to get the money from

And how are the season's end rankings figured? Are they just the this year's points from the 3 year system or do they include all events?

In ice dance, due to all the illnesses and injuries, it may yield a peculiar result.

B&A and K&N withdrew from the GPF
Domshabs withdrew from Europeans
Domshabs withdrew from Worlds
V&M didn't skate the GP
 
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Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
As per the ISU's website, here are the pre-Worlds standings for the bonus:

Tomas Verner is leading the Men’s standings with 1824 points ahead of Takahiko Kozuka (1800 points) and Patrick Chan (1765 points).

Carolina Kostner has 2054 points and is ahead of Yu-Na Kim (1960 points) and Mao Aasa (1880 points).

Savchenko/Szolkowy have 2138 points while Qing Pang/Jian Tong got 2040 points so far. Currently in third place are Yuko Kavaguti/Alexander Smirnov (RUS) at 1931 points.

Meryl Davis/Charlie White lead the bonus race for the ice dancers with 1888 points with Federica Faiella/Massimo Scali (1739 points) and Sinead Kerr/John Kerr (1578 points) following in second and third.

These are based on the current season only. For anyone curious as to why Tomas and Caro are leading having won exactly one event between them all season, remember that they do senior B events, which most of the top skaters don't go for.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
It's not just the ISU rankings that irk me, it's also those Personal Bests which come from different comps and different judges, in different cities.

I did see one listing somewhere showing the Seasonal Bests (using GPs and GPF, as well as 4CC and Euros. When they are averaged out one does see something interesting going into Worlds.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Mathman, Are they giving out that season's end prize money this year? If so, it does cause one to wonder where they are going to get the money from.

Where indeed. The ISU used to get more than half of its money from U.S. television contracts. Now they get pretty close to zero from that source. Maybe they make up some of it from Japanese television.

I think, however, that the ISU's major source of income these days must be whatever dues the member federations pay.

As per the ISU's website, here are the pre-Worlds standings for the bonus:

These are based on the current season only. For anyone curious as to why Tomas and Caro are leading having won exactly one event between them all season, remember that they do senior B events, which most of the top skaters don't go for.

If I remember correctly, one of the stated reasons for initiating this bonus program was to encourage skaters to participate in more events. Especially Four Continents.

In the case of Four Continents, we have seen an abrupt turnaround from being a throw-away event that the best skaters turned their noses up at, to one of the premier events of the season. I don't know whether this bonus money incentive had anything to do with that, however.

It's not just the ISU rankings that irk me, it's also those Personal Bests which come from different comps and different judges, in different cities.

No need, in my opinion, to be irked by the personal bests. They are just for fun and don't mean anything. Pefhaps they provide developing skaters with a means of evaluating their progress.

But the season's ranking thing means $$$.

This is actually kind of interesting. The season's rankings are all about ordinals -- who got first, second and third -- and have nothing to do with how many CoP points a skater scored. Ordinals rule after all. :)
 
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Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Where indeed. The ISU used to get more than half of its money from U.S. television contracts. Now they get pretty close to zero from that source. Maybe they make up some of it from Japanese television.

I think, however, that the ISU's major source of income these days must be whatever dues the member federations pay.
Eurosport increased their TV coverage this season, showing almost all the GPs for the first time in years. I imagine that means they paid more for the broadcast rights.

This is actually kind of interesting. The season's rankings are all about ordinals -- who got first, second and third -- and have nothing to do with how many CoP points a skater scored. Ordinals rule after all. :)
Ordinals, and the Nebelhorn trophy and KSM. :laugh:
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
SEASONAL BESTS are much more meaningful than Personal Bests, and Rankings are just accumulated score for the skater with no comparison as to other competitors as to what comps were being used.

However,they could rank the lower tier skaters as King and Queen of the Bees.

They could also change Juniors to: Seniors taking their last gasp for a medal.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
SEASONAL BESTS are much more meaningful than Personal Bests
In what way are they more meaningful? It's still dependent on which events a skater competed in and how generous the judging panels were at those events.

Personally, I find SBs fairly useless and much prefer a PB displayed for each skater. The ISU only counts GPs and ISU championships towards a best score, so in effect with an SB you are getting a top score out of a tiny number of events. I prefer to have a better indication of what a skater is capable of. If the ISU were to include all sanctioned international events as being ok for the SB/PB, then an SB might be more meaningful. If the KSM, Nebelhorn (and the Universiade?) count towards the standings and the bonus, why shouldn't those results count in deciding SBs and PBs?
 
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