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Thread: Article about reinstating Qualifying Rounds

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by StickyFumblings View Post
    I would suggest they do a system similar to that of track and field, have a certain number of skaters from Euros and 4CCs qualify (let's say the top ten 10 from each) and then the next set highest scores from both competitions qualify as well (let's say 10 again, making 30 total). Then, top 24 from the SP qualify for the LP.

    I also agree that the spots should go to the skaters, not the country or federation, unless that skate can't compete. That way, for example, the U.S. sends it's best skaters to 4CCs, not team B.
    Hallo?? Do you understand the reason for "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS"??? :banging::banging::banging:
    The worlds are NOT only for USA, Russia, Japan and Canada!!!!!! I love to see short programs from India, Brazil, Puerto Rico, Ireland, South Africa or Monaco and i think Worlds should keep this SP (early group and later group) system!!
    I don´t understand the problem about the gowing number of competitors and exotic countries at the world championships! It´s a positive evolution!!

    I really hope the qualification at worlds will be no change and this sill... Cinquanta will retire!!!

  2. #17
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    But what determines entry into the GP? It becomes circular unless there are other criteria for getting into the GP because selection for two GPs is based on results at worlds and seasons best scores. The GPs would need to become more of a free for all to allow all skaters equal chance to get the scores meaning everyone has to have the opportunity to skate at least once on the GP.
    Well, yes, qualifications for the Grand Prix should be changed a bit. Every country should be able to send at least one skater to one Grand Prix event. Every country also automatically gets one entry to 4 Continents/Euros as well. That provides two chances a season for any country to get a skater to Worlds.

    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Also if you did make it a score that had to be met it would open a can of worms in terms of the fact you can't compare scores from different competitions - imagine the skater who draws the caller and judging panel at the notorious Skate America where triples were downgraded more than they were called?
    If a skater is world-class they ARE going to get the necessary score at one of the competitions. A few of the lesser skaters might be "unfairly" left out because of relative scoring between events, but it's much more important for Worlds to actually showcase the best skaters in the World. Yukari Nakano, Akiko Suzuki, Johnny Weir, Alban Preaubert, Caroline Zhang, Ashley Wagner, and various other skaters absolutely should have been at Worlds this year. Limiting entries to a certain number per country needs to stop. It's such a backwards way of thinking.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicFairy View Post
    Hallo?? Do you understand the reason for "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS"??? :banging::banging::banging:
    The worlds are NOT only for USA, Russia, Japan and Canada!!!!!! I love to see short programs from India, Brazil, Puerto Rico, Ireland, South Africa or Monaco and i think Worlds should keep this SP (early group and later group) system!!
    I don´t understand the problem about the gowing number of competitors and exotic countries at the world championships! It´s a positive evolution!!

    I really hope the qualification at worlds will be no change and this sill... Cinquanta will retire!!!
    I agree!

    I have afraid of Cinquanta because he plans to reduce the number of competitors at worlds and that would be horrible
    That would be go back in the past and not in the future

  4. #19
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    Okay, then include Africa and call it the 5CC. Or you allocate a few wildcard spots. Regardless of how it comes about, the point is, the number of competitors should be reduced to at least 36 for singles and 28 teams for pairs and dance, IMO.

  5. #20
    mmmmm....Donut spin :) Kimmie Fan's Avatar
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    I don't get this.
    So what if the SP round takes 8 hours?
    Nobody is forcing anyone to sit through all of it.
    Doesn't really affect the TV coverage.
    And the fans have the choice of watching the lesser talents or head over to the practice rink.

    Again, I don't understand what the problem is?

  6. #21
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    It's my understanding that the longer the competition, the more money it costs.

  7. #22
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    I think that the WC's should be more like the World Cup, any country can enter the process but not all make it to the final tournament.

    Those who enjoy Indian or Egyptian or whatever skaters should seriously think about which will help those country's programs:

    1. A trip to the world championships in which the skater has no hope whatsoever of making it into the LP?

    2. Two or three trips to GP (or second tier) events where the skater is guaranteed the chance to skate in the SP _and_ the LP in front of international judges.

    If I were the Argentinian federation 1 does have a certain mystique but on the other hand, in terms of developing a viable program I'd much take 2 over 1.

    In other words I think that entries to the WC should be limited (somehow or other) to the top 36 in each discipline and that their should be more entries in the GP (and second tier) events specifically reserved for skaters from smaller programs.

    As someone who's been called on to evaluate people for over 8 hours straight I can tell you from personal experience that human beings can't do a great job of that for so long. After hour 4 or 5 you get kind of punch drunk and your ability to evaluate is seriously impaired (especially those who are far better or worse than the norm) and there is _no_ way around that. Some of the question SP judging can probably be put down to judging fatigue.

  8. #23
    mmmmm....Donut spin :) Kimmie Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    As someone who's been called on to evaluate people for over 8 hours straight I can tell you from personal experience that human beings can't do a great job of that for so long. After hour 4 or 5 you get kind of punch drunk and your ability to evaluate is seriously impaired (especially those who are far better or worse than the norm) and there is _no_ way around that. Some of the question SP judging can probably be put down to judging fatigue.
    I don't buy the costs more money excuse. I'm sure Worlds make ton of money for ISU and they can afford it.
    But your point about judge fatigue is probably valid.
    I suppose we can't have the judges replaced during middle of session either.

  9. #24
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmie Fan View Post
    I don't buy the costs more money excuse. I'm sure Worlds make ton of money for ISU and they can afford it.
    ALAICR the ISU has followed penny-wise pound-foolish policies. One the arguments in (quite wrongl!) dumping figures was the idea that figures competitions were expensive. That's probably also a good part of the current drive to dump the CD (down to one, which is far too little).
    Last edited by Mafke; 03-31-2009 at 05:22 AM.

  10. #25
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Well, yes, qualifications for the Grand Prix should be changed a bit. Every country should be able to send at least one skater to one Grand Prix event. Every country also automatically gets one entry to 4 Continents/Euros as well. That provides two chances a season for any country to get a skater to Worlds.
    There would probably need to be more GPs and/or nobody gets to go twice, to fit all the skaters in. Also how do you determine which country gets to send more than one to the GPs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    If a skater is world-class they ARE going to get the necessary score at one of the competitions.
    Not necessarily - even skaters who get two GPs IMO shouldn't be able to take the highest score out of the two otherwise it gives them an unfair advanatge over the other skaters. We know that skaters can have bad competitions so i don't think it's as cut and dry as that. It also takes something out of the GP series in and of itself if it's only function is as a qualifier for worlds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    A few of the lesser skaters might be "unfairly" left out because of relative scoring between events, but it's much more important for Worlds to actually showcase the best skaters in the World. Yukari Nakano, Akiko Suzuki, Johnny Weir, Alban Preaubert, Caroline Zhang, Ashley Wagner, and various other skaters absolutely should have been at Worlds this year. Limiting entries to a certain number per country needs to stop. It's such a backwards way of thinking.
    I disagree - i think it's ridiculous enough that world championships can be decided by less a point - something which is completely meaningless within that same comeptition because of teh random selection. To use those scores across different competitions could cause (a) a real injustice and (b) perpetuates the myth that scores are comparable from different competitions.

    Ant

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by StickyFumblings View Post
    Okay, then include Africa and call it the 5CC. Or you allocate a few wildcard spots. Regardless of how it comes about, the point is, the number of competitors should be reduced to at least 36 for singles and 28 teams for pairs and dance, IMO.
    NO!!!!!!!!!!!! This is "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS" and not 5CC!!!!
    I am so angry now!!!

  12. #27
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    There would probably need to be more GPs and/or nobody gets to go twice, to fit all the skaters in. Also how do you determine which country gets to send more than one to the GPs?
    We would put 24 single skaters and 16 pairs/dance at each event we could give a max of 72 skaters two events. I dont think all skaters need 2 gps. I say give small feds one gp and a spot at 4cc or Euros.
    If we were going to start this next year.I would use a season average(not best) list and give the top 36 skaters two gps. And then give 36 differenet feds (who doesn't have skater that automatically qualified) 2 gps for one skater, or one gp for two skaters.


    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I disagree - i think it's ridiculous enough that world championships can be decided by less a point - something which is completely meaningless within that same comeptition because of teh random selection. To use those scores across different competitions could cause (a) a real injustice and (b) perpetuates the myth that scores are comparable from different competitions.

    Ant
    I think it depends on if you say the top 36 season best go to worlds vs top 36 season average go to worlds vs All females skaters who broke 140 and all male skaters who broke 180 qualify for worlds.
    My main problem is the major difference in skill level.
    Last edited by enlight78; 03-31-2009 at 05:16 PM.

  13. #28
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    I agree with having the top ranked 12 skaters get in automatically and the rest having to qualify for the additional 24 spots. Even though CoP in non-cooperative, I think it is still too much for the judges to stay attentive through 8 hours of judging. Also, while many skaters are indeed proud to represent their countries, the trip to the Worlds is often more for the benefit of the dignitaries involved (such is the case of the Azeri federation, for instance).

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicFairy View Post
    NO!!!!!!!!!!!! This is "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS" and not 5CC!!!!
    I am so angry now!!!
    I was talking about the Four Continents Championships, not Worlds.

  15. #30
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    first and foremost, one has to realize that skaters from China, France, Japan, Russia and the US do not qualify for Competitions because there are rules that stipulate the number of skaters permitted from one country. So, therefore there are some skaters left behind who could easily be among the top 10 to finish in a competition. Yukari Nakano immediately comes to mind.

    We then face the problem of what exactly is the purpose of a competition?

    Is it to find the champion and the two who almost make champion? or

    Is it important that every country be permitted to send at least one skater regardless of talent?

    Is it ethical to prevent skaters from competing because of the entry limitations per country?

    I do not want to prevent skaters from competing, but as a sports fan, I am only inerested in who is the best skater or best team on their particular day at a particular competition.

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