Another point nobody's brought up: adding a rotation to a jump doesn't happen overnight. Skaters have to build up to upgrade a jump.
Skaters will land more than their share of underrotated jumps in practice from fighting to save the landing while getting a feel for the new rotation.
Can someone tell us who don't know the code how were Rachael jumps? Did she have any wrong edge or underation calls?
If you downgrade a triple to a double, it is no longer an "underrotated triple" since you've already labeled it an "overrotated double." So if you're even going to attempt a logical discussion, begin there. Should a jump then be penalized AGAIN for being overrotated if it was TRYING to be a triple? Even when it's just a tiny edge difference which is only visible on slomo replay, slam it with -3 GOE in addition to the downgrade? Tiny Edge Difference = Worse Than Fall? Fail, fail, fail on so many levels. There's no logical defense of it. It's terrible for the sport that it's been allowed to continue for so long.
I really think Mao was underscored here -_-.
Rachael's opening 3F+2T was downgraded to the base value of a 3F+1T.Originally Posted by flying camel
This was unfortunate because she had visions of a 3F+3T (base value 9.5), but her landing on the flip was wonky, so the best she could try for was 3F+2T (base value 6.8), But she didn't get around even enough for a 2T, so the 2T was downgraded and, after negative GOE, she ended up with 3.90 for the element.
Otherwise, Racahel did not receive any edge calls or other underrotations, and she got positive GOEs on all of her other jumps except a small negative GOE on her 3Lz+2T.
The same sort of thing happen with Yu-na Kim's Salchow. She intended a triple, but she didn't even make it around enough for a double. It was scored as 2S< and Kim received a total of 0.44 for the element (which was about 0.44 too much.)
Is it just me or does Yuna's edge jumps always keep you on the edge worried that she'll make a mistake? She seems to struggle with the salchow a lot and the loop as well. Her salchow never seems to get enough height and usually looks underrotated to me :-/
So, we have a champion who can perfect only 3 jumps, 2A, 3T and 3Lz.???
I wouldn't say that. Axel is also an edge jump, right? Her 2A is to die for.
Also, she is confident enough to add combination jumps to 3S when she has trouble with her planned combination jumps. She has had her 3S in her gala numbers as well for quite a while.
About 3L, she said it's psychological stuff. Here is what she said about her loop;
''If I couldn't do it, I would just give it up. But in practice I land Loops just as well as other jumps. So I can't throw it out completely. It's just psychological." I think it was during an interview before 4CC or GPF.
Her 3S is not as huge as her toe-jumps but I love that jump of her and I think so does Kurt who said 'bea~utiful Salchaw' during his commentation on her 4CC LP.
Last edited by gourry; 04-01-2009 at 01:18 AM. Reason: typo
I find the idea that Yu-na has issues with her 3 salchow to be laughable. Yu-na didn't miss her 3 salchow ONCE last year, and she landed it just fine 3 times this year.
Her 3 salchow seemed to have a pretty difficult entrance just right after her spiral sequence and it's at the end of her program. It's more likely that Yu-na has some stamina issues, more so than issues with her 3 salchow. Seriously if the girl couldn't do a 3 salchow, she wouldn't be putting it in her exhibitions so much.
IIRC, Yu Na did a nice 3s in her exhibition...
You see, you should be really careful because this kind of remark can bring this kind of reply:
We had a champion who didn't have 3Lz and 3S.
Ouch!
I’m so heartbroken for Mao. I really wanted her to win this one mostly because I’ve always been drawn to underdogs and to people who I see are trying to overcome difficulties and their weaknesses. I sort of feel more invested in them and in their growth that way and it makes me appreciate their performance more. I don’t really follow the figure skating season - up until this one. But I saw Mao at Worlds 07 and I liked her. I saw her at Worlds 08 landing everything after that disastrous fall on the 3axel and I loved her. I watched her videos and saw her attempting 3a, 3a3t, 2a3t, 3f3t, 3f3lo and improving her spins and spirals over the years. She brought back her salchow and her solo toeloop. She’s trying to correct her lutz. She’s really inspiring – like, sometimes, if I’m lacking in motivation, I’ll tell myself “If Mao can do it so can I” Corny and kinda lame, I know, but I get so desperate and sooo unmotivated at times…
And that’s why I find it so frustrating that despite all these elements that she can do, the high quality of her spins, spiral and skating, it still comes out that the one to beat is Yuna. Don’t get me wrong, I love Yuna and she definitely deserved her win. But perfection can get boring. Its like after I watch a perfect Danse Macabre once, I don’t wanna see it again. Is her 4cc performance of it really 3pts better than her Worlds performance of it? (Just thinking out loud, I’m really not familiar with the scoring and the judging) I would have loved her win better if she attempted the loop at the long – even if she doesn’t land it.
So the name of the game really is consistency –pinpointing the stuff you do best and doing it over and over again. Apparently being the jack-of-all trades is not the way to go. There is reluctance in Mao’s camp I think to just pick the stuff that she can really do consistently so she can get more points. They would have to make a decision about it for next year. Hopefully, Mao comes out strong and consistent next year so I can have another overcoming-all-obstacles, triumphant-after-hardship inspirational story I can bawl all over.
That’s all and I hope I didn’t offend anyone. (I get so scared of posting here sometimes for fear of upsetting someone. *Shudder*)
I definitely admire Mao for her ability to make a comeback after falls and her willingness to challenge herself, again and again. I was really impressed by how ambitious her LP was this season, not just with the difficulty of the jumps but also by the choice of music, but I also think it underlined the fact that Tarasova is not really the best coach for her. Sure, Mao's trying out new styles, and this season I think is more experimental than her other seasons (especially with regards to her LP) but, as another poster said, she's putting all too many eggs in the triple axel basket. The fact that she had two 3As was amazing, but also felt like a big shout out: 'LOOK! I'VE GOT TWO 3AS!'. And while I was impressed with her LP, but I didn't like it. It felt like two 3As, combos, and a lot of arm-flailing in between. Mostly the aggressive music consumed and owned Mao rather than Mao owning the music. I felt tired just watching her skate.
I see where you're coming from with Danse Macabre (it's strange, because I never tire of rewatching her Tango SP but this one wore out mid-season for me). That said, I find Yuna very inspiring because she literally came out of nowhere onto the figure skating scene. Korea does not have a history of figure skating. She does not have her own rink to practice at in Korea (Mao has, um, two) so she has to go to a public rink where people take photos of her 24/7, and a lot of the money she earns from starring in commercials goes to a) funding for young prospective figure skaters and b) her own training fees (I can't imagine Canada and Brian Orser come cheap). This is one of the reasons why Koreans adore her so much - she's totally the underdog dream come true. No funding, no support, no sponsors...yet she made it through. And this is the first season she's been completely injury-free!I'm just so happy that she didn't let the grand prix loss get to her and just skated as well as she could have. I'm always in awe of her perfection, because I know all the difficulties she must have gone through to get there.
Yes. But Mao had 3A besides other jumps. And She worked hard and perfected 3SYou see, you should be really careful because this kind of remark can bring this kind of reply:
We had a champion who didn't have 3Lz and 3S.
Ouch!
And hopefully she will perfect 3Lz, too.I admire her for trying to fix it.I just am hoping that Yu-na will work hard and fix her flip and loop and put them in her program next year. I feel that in order for her to become an Olympic champion,she must show us her versatile. She has to show us that she can do everything. That is to me the real champion. It would be nice that if rules require both toe combos and loop combo. Would it be nice to see triple-triple toe and triple-triple loop combo in one program? And that it requires not to repeat any jumps.But I know it is too much to ask.
bmelanie, Of course, she must put 3A in her programs. I do not care what anyone says, putting 2 3A is extraordinary. Who has done it before? There are skaters who can do 3L-3T combos but Mao is the only lady in the world who could to 2 3A in one program.And It is a courageous thing to do. It is risky to do so for the current new judging system, but Mao and TAT did not care. They wanted to try.And she is not just satisfied with having 3A .She got 3S back and now she is working really hard to fix her lutz. She did not say "hay I have 3A, so I do not need to fix anything." Whatever happens in the end, I just admire her for not dwelling on one spot, instead she is always challenging herself for new spot. And I know jumps are not only elements that she works on, just like other skaters, spins,spirals, step sequences, etc etc..... I believe that TAT is the best choice for MAO. After saying this, I am very sure Yu-na will do the same as well. I am sure she is not going to be satisfied and say "well, I have great 3L-3T, so I do not have to fix anything. I do not need to because I will win anyway with jumps I have". I am sure she will work hard to perfect all other jumps and improve other elements, as well especially now that she is a world champion.I just can not wait for the next season. I know all other skaters will work hard to show us improved skating. That is why they are considered top athletes in the world. Personally, I can not wait for Rachael, Caroline and Mirai.
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