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Thread: The High Scoring 2 and 3 Jump Combos

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    The High Scoring 2 and 3 Jump Combos

    I would assume the hghest scoring combos would involve the first jump as an Axel or a Lutz. The second jump would have to be a Loop jump for a 2 jump highest awarded combo.

    Has anyone seen a 3A x 3R? or a 3Z x 3R?, and was there good flow out of the 2nd jump?

    The 3 Jump Combo requires a half loop jump after the first, followed by a Flip and a Loop jumps.

    Has anyone seen a 3A (3Z) x half loop x complete 3R? and was there good flow out of the third jump?

    The 3 Jump Combo can also require a half loop jump after the second jump, followed by a 3 Sal. (Note: after the first jump there is either a 3T or a 3R}

    Has anyone seen a 3A (3Z) x a 3T or a 3R x half loop x 3Sal? and was there good flow out of it.

    I have seen mostly 3Ts in combos and the last jump of a combo, in some cases, does not flow at all. I think there are more points to gain in this area when looking at high scoring combos.

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    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I would assume the hghest scoring combos would involve the first jump as an Axel or a Lutz. The second jump would have to be a Loop jump for a 2 jump highest awarded combo.

    Has anyone seen a 3A x 3R? or a 3Z x 3R?, and was there good flow out of the 2nd jump?
    For 3Z+3R combos - Miki Ando has been trying these for a long time, but rarely has the 3R ratified. Irina Slutskaya is probably the skater with teh most ratified 3Z+3R jumps ratified, but one of Irina's main problems with jumps was lack of flow out and on her combinations - the second jump was often landed at a near standstill.

    The men seem to use the 3R less as the back half of combinations. In a two jump combination I can only think of Eric Millot back in the day doing 3R+3R and landing with good flow. I believe he may have also landed a 3A+3R once but can't recall the competition.

    I also seem to recall Alexander Abt attempintg 3A+3R a few times in his career but cannot recall him landing a clean one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    The 3 Jump Combo requires a half loop jump after the first, followed by a Flip and a Loop jumps.
    I'm not sure what you mean here Joe (but if you mean three multi-revolution jumps linked with a half loop look at teh final paragraph about why, points wise it wouldn't benefit the skater) - the highest scoring three jump combos would be three multi-revolution jumps together. The inclusion of a half-loop as you suggest would turn the jumping pass into a sequence rather than a combination so it would also lose 0.2 marks for being a sequence.

    I would guess the most difficult three jump combination attempted would be 4T+3T+3R that Plushenko has landed a few times in competition. After that I would think that Oda's 3A+3T+3R that he landed would be the next difficult. From memory he landed it at least once in competition and the flow out of the third jump wasn't too bad. Next would be Kevin Van de Peren's 3F+3T+3R that he did a few seasons ago and that did have good flow out. He now does the slightly easier 3S+3T+3R.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Has anyone seen a 3A (3Z) x half loop x complete 3R? and was there good flow out of the third jump?
    Not sure about this since a half loop (for an anti-clockwise rotator) would leave you on a LBI edge, so you would need to push back onto a RBO for the 3R (would that still count as a step/hop etc for the sequence rules?). Or did you mean a 3S or 3F directly out of the half loop?

    I've never seen a skater follow a 3A or 3Z with a half-loop+3R. Pluschenko did land 3A/Half-loop/3F in the 2001/2002 season. Yags was landing 3A/half-loop/3S that season too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    The 3 Jump Combo can also require a half loop jump after the second jump, followed by a 3 Sal. (Note: after the first jump there is either a 3T or a 3R}

    Has anyone seen a 3A (3Z) x a 3T or a 3R x half loop x 3Sal? and was there good flow out of it.
    I got a bit lost following this bit - can you explain it further Joe i'm having a difficult time visualising the jump combos/sequences you are describing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I have seen mostly 3Ts in combos and the last jump of a combo, in some cases, does not flow at all. I think there are more points to gain in this area when looking at high scoring combos.
    The only thing i would say is that some of the jumps you seem to be describing could be three multi-revolution jumps at some point linked with a half-loop (unless i have mis-understood?). Under the current scoring system anything that is a sequence as opposed to a combination will only get 0.8 of the base value of the two hardest jumps therefore if you were thinknig e.g. that someone super human could do 3A/3T-half-loop/3F, the skater would receive points that was 0.8 x (3A basevalue + 3F Basevalue). There would be no point in doing the 3T in between.

    Ant

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    I get a bit lost trying to explain it.

    It seems like Russian skaters were the best at high scoring 2 jump combos.

    Interesting you pointed out the 3A or 3Z followed by a 3R does not appeal to the Male Skaters in general. What could be the reason? Kwan was working on a 3Zx3R but the hips gave out. She did do a 3Zx2R

    Thanks for the non scoring of the 3 multi-rotational jumps in a 3 jump combo with a 1/2 loop involved.. I believeSlutskaya did a 3T-1/2 loop-3Sal but that was not a 3 jump combo.

    Thanks again for the information re a Sequence and Combo. I really thought they would be the same. The SalChow and Flip need a half loop jump to ge them on the proper edge. Guess they just go into the Sequence category.

    I'll try to explain better about the half loop now that I know its use is for a sequence and not for a combo.

    3Z x 3R - half loop 3Sal or 3F.

    Again, thanks for alerting me on the .8 half loop.

    My original point was to say that the points acquired by present combos (and sequences) could be higher and the present combos, in general have poor flow outs for completion. Kim and Mao being the exceptions.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I think Antman makes an interesting point. You actually lose points by trying these harder sequences.

    For instance, 3Lz + half-loop + 3F gives you 9.2 points. Compare to the easier 3Lz + 3T = 10.0 points.

    As for 3Lz+3Lo+half-loop+3F, I think that would be scored as a sequence also, and would also be worth only 9.2 points. Compare to 3Lz+3Lo+3T = 15.0 points.

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    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Thanks for the non scoring of the 3 multi-rotational jumps in a 3 jump combo with a 1/2 loop involved.. I believeSlutskaya did a 3T-1/2 loop-3Sal but that was not a 3 jump combo.
    Actually now that you've said that i'm pretty sure that Slutskaya had been trying 3S+3R/half loop/3S as a combination pre COP. I'm thinking it was 2001/2002 season. Did she ever land it? I think in SLC it turned into 3S+2R/half loop/2S. I think at worlds one of the doubles might have been a triple.

    The seuqences I miss are the ones that i seem to recall the men doing (though i'm certain the ladies did too) with two big jumps at teh beginning and the end with many different single, half and one and half rotation jumps in between. The rhythm of the sequence was always good. The one I have in mind was Urmanov used to end his LPs with one that included a 3T and a 3S and had a number of jumps in between.

    Ant

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    The 2R and 3R as part of a combination.

    Back in the 1988 and before time frame, the SP had a requirement about what one of the jumps in the required combination had to be. In 1988, one of the 2 jumps of the combination had to be a 2R. As a result, you saw Brian Orser and Brian Boitano and Viktor Petrenko all do 3A2R combinations in their SP. Likewise, in the ladies SP, you had Midori Ito do a 2R3R! AFAIR, anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I also seem to recall Alexander Abt attempintg 3A+3R a few times in his career but cannot recall him landing a clean one.
    Alexander Abt definitely landed a clean 3A-3R at the Nations Cup (the former German GP) - I remember seeing it. Not sure of the year - perhaps 2002?

    I believe one of the Canadian men has landed that combination as well.
    Last edited by goldenpleasures; 04-27-2009 at 11:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenpleasures View Post
    Alexander Abt definitely landed a clean 3A-3R at the Nations Cup (the former German GP) - I remember seeing it. Not sure of the year - perhaps 2002?

    I believe one of the Canadian men has landed that combination as well.
    Jayson Denomee

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    Sitting Here on Blue Jay Way silver.blades's Avatar
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    ^Who's that.
    Joey Russell has done a 3A-3R, but not in competition IIRC.

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    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenpleasures View Post
    Alexander Abt definitely landed a clean 3A-3R at the Nations Cup (the former German GP) - I remember seeing it. Not sure of the year - perhaps 2002?

    I believe one of the Canadian men has landed that combination as well.
    It was 1998 and here's the youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqxQ6lzb-4I

    As far as Abt's programmes go this one is pretty cringey! Bad costume and not much performance but the 3A/3R was great - a bit wobbly on the landing on the last jump but the height of the axel and the height of the loop is impressive.

    Two footed quad wasn't bad either!

    Ant
    Last edited by antmanb; 05-01-2009 at 03:41 AM. Reason: trying to fix the link

  11. #11
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    thank you for explanation ab sequenece and combo, i have some questions but i need to study the thread first again

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