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## YuNa's Illegal Element

I was going to try to search through the 69 pages of comments about the Ladies' LP but decided that this was more efficient.

Does anyone know why YuNa's last element was deemed to be illegal?

Thanks

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because it was a repeated spin... I want to say combination spin...

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Because of a dumb new rule.

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Originally Posted by Tonichelle
because it was a repeated spin... I want to say combination spin...

Thanks for the clarification

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I hope someone posts more detail about this, because I wondered about it, too. The new rule says (rather awkwardly) that each spin must have "different letters" in its description -- in other words, you can't do the the same kind of spin twice.

According to the protocols, Kim did a FSSp4 (flying sitspin), a CoSp4 (combination spin), and her last element was listed as a CCoSp4 (change-foot combination spin). I don't see why these aren't three different spins. Unless maybe she did not do enough revolutions on each foot to get the credit for the extra "C" on the last spin.

The same happened to rachael Flatt. Her spins were FCSp4 (flying camel), CoSp4 and CCoSp4. The last one didn't count.

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well I have never been the one that knows all the funky terms... the discussion isn't buried that far in the ladies LP thread... it was the last major discussion we had IIRC.

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Basically, as I've learned on this board, you must do three spins: a flying spin, a spin in one position, and combo spin.

Each spin may only satisfy one of those requirements. So a flying sit, while being both a flying spin and a spin in one position, may only count as "the flying spin" *OR* "the spin in one position."

Yuna normally has 2 flying spins in her LP, a flying sit and a flying combo, but I think she was flustered from opening up her salchow and didn't do a flying entrance into her (normally) flying combo spin.

I really do like the spin in one position requirement, as it's prettier (imo) and it requires mastery of the position.

But the way this rule is written has caused BOATLOADS of problems, as we've all seen. It seems wrong that someone who bobbles and recenters a spin might get more points for it than someone who's otherwise clean spin violates an administrative rule.

If they just let spins satisfy more than one requirement at a time, I think they'd clear up the bulk of the problems.

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Without rules, anything would go. And then how would the winner be determined?

Everyone in Juniors and Seniors gets the rules at the same time, Usually these rules for the next skating season come out in spring. If a coach and/or skater missed a particular part of a rule, then it's their fault for not making sure they read the rules more carefully.

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The rules say for women free skating:

one flying spin
one combination spin
and one spin with only one position

Yu-Na has two combinations spin, and that is not allowed.

She said in an interview, that they changed the pirourette after the four continents and that this their mistake, and not the mistake of any other person.
Sorry, I cannot find the interview now.

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This is all far past the point of rediculousness and into the beginning stages of insanity. The IJS needs a complete overhaul IMHO!

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Originally Posted by Mathman
I hope someone posts more detail about this, because I wondered about it, too. The new rule says (rather awkwardly) that each spin must have "different letters" in its description -- in other words, you can't do the the same kind of spin twice.

According to the protocols, Kim did a FSSp4 (flying sitspin), a CoSp4 (combination spin), and her last element was listed as a CCoSp4 (change-foot combination spin). I don't see why these aren't three different spins. Unless maybe she did not do enough revolutions on each foot to get the credit for the extra "C" on the last spin.

The same happened to rachael Flatt. Her spins were FCSp4 (flying camel), CoSp4 and CCoSp4. The last one didn't count.

If they put the "C" in front of it then it seems they did enough rotations for it to count.

I'm with you MM - I thought all the letters have to be different and in this case they are - there's a world of difference between a Combination spin on one foot and change foot combination spin.

I don't understand why it happened either.

EDIT - i read on and people have mentioned the requirements for the spins in the LP....note it is the "long" program ceratinly not the Free Program anymore. In fact since the only real difference between the long and short programs is 4 jumping passes for the ladies and five for the men (most of which come after the SP time limit in order to get the second half bonus) why dno't they just rename it the "more jumps program".

Maybe someone should skate their SP with an added piece at the end for the their LP one year?

Ant

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Originally Posted by antmanb
Maybe someone should skate their SP with an added piece at the end for the their LP one year?

Ant
It would be fun!! It'll be like a trailer and an actual movie. Or they can go like part 1 and part 2.

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Originally Posted by singerskates
Without rules, anything would go. And then how would the winner be determined?
You sorta want the rules to make sense though.

There's no need to restrict spins so much for the LP ("freeskate"). The requirement of doing different spin types was enough. Why must we HAVE to do a flying spin?

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Originally Posted by Blades of Passion
You sorta want the rules to make sense though.

There's no need to restrict spins so much for the LP ("freeskate"). The requirement of doing different spin types was enough. Why must we HAVE to do a flying spin?
I agree - they already have to do demonstrate the different spins in the SP, they've gotten rid of one of the spins this year (why not get rid of the sleep inducing spiral sequence and save much more time, and get rid of the skaters mouthing "one onethousand, two one thousande, three one thousand..." to themselves as they're holding the positions?).

If they genuinely want more difference in the spins tell the skaters they can only use a feature once, once it's been used it can't be used again in one of the other spins. At the moment the skaters basically learn one set of features and use them again and again in the same spins - back sit, canonball, change edge lift free leg onto spinning leg - use it in the flying spin, add a forward sit on the end for the spin in one position , use it in your combo spin. Job done.

Ant

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The rules are written in black and white so I have to say this was a misjudgement on Yu-Na's(moreso Orser's) part, can't blame anyone or the rules. I would have been extremely frustrated if this have costed her a title. I would say better happened here.

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