- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
PERFECT
We could then judge the Sport as a Sport, and leave the Musical portion to the Exhibitions (Galas). I'll buy that.
Is Canada out in front of the CoP learning curve?
- Thread starter Mathman
- Start date
I would also seriously overhaul "transition" score, perhaps making it technical element and judge it more comprehensively. Transitions in between 4S and 3A should score higher than transitions between 2F and 3T.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
Well I don't know about this theory, but they do know it takes lots and lots of hard work and discipline to reach the top in the figure skating world. Canada has had a golden history of great skaters who have quietly influenced figure skating over the years - some behind the scenes as coaches, choreographers and judges. Perhaps it's through their persistance to leave a great figure skating legacy to future Canadian skaters that has helped.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2005
Well just off the top of my head Lori choreographed for Patrick, Evan and Joannie. David Wilson choreographed for Yu-Na. Four world medalists between the two of them is pretty impressive.
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2007
Gotta love that versatility.
Nichol
Oda
Lysacek
Verner
Chan
Asada
Flatt
Rochette
Czisny (Nichol is listed: what did she do?)
Dubé / Davison
Zhang
Nagasu
Mroz
Kostner
Wilson
Kim
Phaneuf
Jeremy Ten
Dubé / Davison
Czisny
Rippon
Gee, no wonder the ladies put me to sleep. I guess that's what we have to expect from the men in the future too: Go to Canada, get a cookie cutter program - and then you might deserve some PCS.
Seriously, some guys can skate to it and make it look great, like Rippon and Chan - but there is no creativity (give me one creative thing Chan does, something really out of the box), no differences. Rippon makes it look great because he jumps around like a squirrel, smiling and seriously enjoying himself all the time - plus he has those special moves, but he had those even before Morozov, I think. Chan makes it look great because he is an outstanding skater.
I don't want Joubert to skate like Mroz, who honestly doesn't look as if he has fun out there, who is really really slow and contrary to others I don't think he was well connected to the music. And Jeremy Ten looks like a mediocre more awkward version of Chan. Verner gave the choreo his best shot at Worlds, but I didn't have the feeling that he really lived the choreo.
I actually like it that not everybody skates the same, I like Joubert's SP, I like Contesti's programs, I like Ponsero's programs (he mostly works with dancers, non-skaters), I like Préaubert's programs (he works with French ice-dancers). Do we really want to delete the crazy guys, the macho guys, the dancers from men's skating?
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- Joined
- Dec 13, 2005
When did you change your tune on him just being an overscored brat?
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- Jan 6, 2007
I still think he acted like a brat in those interviews at Worlds and I still think that he is overscored at times.
But I never said that he isn't a great skater with outstanding abilities.
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- Mar 25, 2008
I don't even have to write that I agree anymore, right? :agree: Of course I agree.
I'll tell you what I am missing from many - not all - of the Nichol/Wilson programs: having a concept, a theme, having a skater do something that has meaning (even if the meaning is not quite clear) rather than a collection of elements designed to get high PCS and GOEs. We need more of that and less of people skating to the music without really giving it any unique interpretation. The French guys usually have it. Yagudin, and on occasion Plushy, had it. Lulu with some of her programs, too. Most of the Nichol-Wilson skaters do not.
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- Dec 21, 2006
wow, i wonder what david and lori are doing with all that cambio rollin' in...
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- Feb 5, 2004
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- Feb 5, 2004
Then i'm affraid you'll be waiting until the COP changes completely. Look at the section i highlighted in bold - that is exactly what a successful figure skating programme has become - the sum of parts. It no longer is a cohesive programme based mostly on the music. The skaters aren't out there on the ice for the integrity of skating, medals be damned. They're trying to win. Winning means doing programmes that fit with the COP.
Ant
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
Well, I'm hoping that as skaters, coaches and choreographers become more used to the system, we will see more people who have the required elements and transitions while still skating a cohesive, meaningful program. We do get those, now and then, but not often enough for my liking. But still, there were some good programs this year: I felt that M/T's SP worked on the elements level and as a whole, as did Robin and Aliona's Schindler's List LP.
You know, Nichol and Wilson don't seem to have really gotten into ice dance choreo. Maybe that's why it seems so versatile and interesting.
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
That's an opinion only. I see no reason why Nichol and Wilson should go into Ice Dance. They are doing fine financially with what they are doing. They are not competing as the 'best' choreographers nor do they have to.You know, Nichol and Wilson don't seem to have really gotten into ice dance choreo. Maybe that's why it seems so versatile and interesting.
Again, Ice Dance is so versatile? In my opinion, it isn't even Figure Skating. Most Dance couples are not sure about downbeat as opposed to upbeat, and I could go on and on. Versatile? JMO.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
Well, I'm hoping that as skaters, coaches and choreographers become more used to the system, we will see more people who have the required elements and transitions while still skating a cohesive, meaningful program. We do get those, now and then, but not often enough for my liking. But still, there were some good programs this year: I felt that M/T's SP worked on the elements level and as a whole, as did Robin and Aliona's Schindler's List LP.
You know, Nichol and Wilson don't seem to have really gotten into ice dance choreo. Maybe that's why it seems so versatile and interesting.
I should have made clear that I lament the loss of the "whole programme" myself. I'd like to hope that as people get more used to the system then truly great programs (which seemed in abundance under 6.0) will make a resurgeance. I agree with the programs you listed I just wish there were more.
Ant
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2005
David Wilson has choreographed Ice Dance though. He created Dubrueil and Lauzon's "Somewhere in Time" program and also works with Weaver and Poje (they had their awesome Dr.Zhivago this past year). I really enjoyed both those programs! I think Ice Dance is extremely versatile and I have really started to enjoy it more and more because of COP.
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- Mar 23, 2008
There I fixed it for you.
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- Mar 25, 2008
I don't recall seeing W/P skate, and can't really remember Somewhere in Time (sorry
). I won't argue that both Wilson and Nichol have put together some lovely programs. My main concern is that many of their programs are not that interesting conceptually, and that having so many skaters using the same choreographers results in too much similarity. It's true that many of the ice dance teams are also using a limited number of choreographers, but it's not as bad as in singles, IMO. As you noted, ice dance is one discipline that has really benefited from CoP. Maybe it's easier to put together an interesting program to fit the elements required of ice dancers. But there seems to be so much more creativity in that discipline these days.It was absolutely clear - and as I wrote, I too am hopeful that they'll make a comeback soon.antmanb said:
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2005
I don't recall seeing W/P skate, and can't really remember Somewhere in Time (sorry
In case you are interested:
Weaver and Poje
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzZqrCv0dmM
Dubreuil and Lauzon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvlaIN8SdBM
I don't know what I would do without YouTube!
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
Thanks for the links! Youtube is indeed our friend, except when they remove videos :scowl:.Weaver and Poje
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzZqrCv0dmM
Dubreuil and Lauzon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvlaIN8SdBM
I don't know what I would do without YouTube!
I watched W/P (will look at D/L later), and it was nice. I can't say I found it too exciting or memorable, and there are other teams whose programs hold my interest more. I'll attribute it to their being young and relatively new to seniors; hopefully with time more of their personality and uniqueness will shine through. I wonder which Canadian team will get the second ticket to Vancouver - any thoughts on that?
The designer responsible for Kaitlyn's costume should be fired. Except for closeup shots, it looked like a wardrobe malfunction. Her CD costume was also hideous; she really is too pretty to be stuck with such awful costumes.
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