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Thread: Preparing for the 2010 Olympics - Top Contenders

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennylovskt View Post
    That was not called rebuffing. Joubert didn't talk about Chan on anything. Chan attacked Joubert in the name of Buttle. I don't think Jeffrey Buttle would appreciate that. Chan talked in such direct, harsh, and personal ways, also linked it to the great skaters in the past. If you use a little more of your rational judgement, you might come up with more reasonable answers.

    Kwan never got Olympic gold, but she was one of the greatest figure skaters on the planet in many ways. She never talked trash on any of her opponents any time. That was what I was talking about that Chan should learn from her.
    Everyone knew going to World, Chan was one of the faves. For Jourbert to say that his only competition was Lycacek cause he had a quad, that's insulting and lack of respects for other skaters (i.e. the contenders, including Chan).

    Chan only responded when asked, and that was not attacking, he's just saying THE TRUTH! And Buttle was his friend and for Joubert to say stuff about Buttle last year and then again this year... Chan was just rebuffing Jourbert's egoist claim.

    It seems like the person who should use some sense to see the reality then making some dumb judgments is yourself. Thank you very much!

  2. #62
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Jeez, only within the figure skating community or a nunnery would Chan's comments be seen as "harsh". I'm glad he spoke his opinion. Joubert was being a whiner and he got called on it. Actually, I remember Chan's words being "I guess he is a sore loser then"; that was after being prompted by a question. Meaning that given what Joubert said, Chan would interpret his words as such. He didn't even directly call Joubert a sore loser.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Particle Man View Post
    Then you're crazy, because in that extremely unlikely scenario, you should just jump for utter joy that any of our skaters could win a medal. None of the current US girls have a prayer at silver or gold, and bronze is extremely unlikely as well.



    Umm, lol? What, skaters are presidents now, they are limited to 2 terms in office? What about Michelle Kwan and all her Nationals and Worlds gold medals, surely she well exceeded her "term in office" by taking all those gold medals from the "amateurs?"
    I don't think it's "crazy" to wish to say to Michelle and Sasha, "Look, ladies, I'm sure you both remember how you felt to have the opportunity to represent your country in the Olympics. You got that opportunity because other skaters who had already experienced that feeling once or twice stepped aside just as their predecessors had stepped aside in a chain of years and years of "getting that feeling" and then stepping aside. Do you wish to deny your younger compatriots that same opportunity? Come on, now, sweeties, don't you sweet things have enough medals and memories to satisfy your thirst and greed for more stuff to decorate your # @#&?$%& trophy cabinets?

    No, I won't "jump for utter joy" at seeing up and coming skaters
    denied their joy because a couple of selfish past stars can't get over it.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jettasian View Post
    Everyone knew going to World, Chan was one of the faves. For Jourbert to say that his only competition was Lycacek cause he had a quad, that's insulting and lack of respects for other skaters (i.e. the contenders, including Chan).
    Maybe Joubert was just being polite, considering that Lysacek is from USA, where the competition was held. Besides, I think that also many skaters may see Lysacek as a really good competitor. Anyway, Lysacek won Joubert without a quad, as did Chan.

  5. #65
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    I'm not sure why we need another Chan-Joubert thread; this is becoming a bot-like discussion. Just for the record, here is the relevant bit from Hersh; note that this was paraphrased, not a direct quote:
    Joubert, world runner-up last year, considers Lysacek the most dangerous and gives him special respect as the only other likely title contender to do quadruple jumps.
    Joubert then turned to his generic "quads are important" argument, which he has been making for about five years now. Anyway, this is not dissing anyone; it's an assessment of who has a good chance - which, as it turns out, was correct. "Gives him special respect" does not mean "doesn't respect anyone else". At the time I thought Joubert was right - Lysacek had something to prove and had shown marked improvement at 4CC. Plushenko, when interviewed elsewhere, also picked Evan for a podium finish.

    Back to who needs to do what:
    Johnny Weir needs to drop the generic choreo and find inspiration again.
    Virtue/Moir need to not experiment with the music this year. It was a good idea in 2009, but for an Olympic season, they should play to their strengths.
    The Zhangs should continue working on their expression. Their SP this year was a vast improvement over what they had in the past; they need to carry that into next season.
    Pechalat/Bourzat are not really podium contenders, but if they want to be, they must work on the CDs. They keep losing points on those. But like D/W, I think they mostly need the number 1 team to retire.
    Rachael Flatt needs to work on her posture; if she can't, she needs a new costume designer to disguise it.
    I'm thinking Jeremy Abbott might be another of the skaters in need of a good sports psychologist.
    Assuming he gets Tarasova as his choreographer, Joubert must not let her pick his music or costumes, and someone needs to ensure she gives him a CoP program rather than a 6.0 one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsteam4501s View Post
    No, I won't "jump for utter joy" at seeing up and coming skaters
    denied their joy because a couple of selfish past stars can't get over it.
    If Michelle Kwan or Sasha Cohen win Nationals and deserve it, then they should be sent, no matter what! Just as Silvia Fontana returned, beat Valentina Marchei and went to the Olympics.
    After all, also Elaine Zayak returned in 1994 and wanted to go to Olympics. She lost and didn't go.

    If one wants to go, she/he has to deserve it.

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    I believe this is going to become a major debate before next January. There are two major sides to it, both sides have good arguments. I happen to be on the side that believes that every good skater has, and should have, an adequate "window" of opportunity to enjoy the Olympic experience, medal or no medal. The natural order of things would merely require that the skaters themselves, once they have had access to that window, politely step aside and allow the next generation to enjoy THEIR window in a natural flow of change. I believe this is the best way to perpetuate the Olympic tradition, and for the U.S., I believe it is the best way to keep the INCENTIVE for the most talented skaters flowing smoothly. This, I believe, is MORE important than the idea of "keeping U.S. prestige high in the international skating community".

    I believe there is nothing "crazy" or "ridiculous" about this viewpoint, nor should those words be applied to the other viewpoint.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    I'm not sure why we need another Chan-Joubert thread; this is becoming a bot-like discussion. Just for the record, here is the relevant bit from Hersh; note that this was paraphrased, not a direct quote:
    Joubert then turned to his generic "quads are important" argument, which he has been making for about five years now. Anyway, this is not dissing anyone; it's an assessment of who has a good chance - which, as it turns out, was correct. "Gives him special respect" does not mean "doesn't respect anyone else". At the time I thought Joubert was right - Lysacek had something to prove and had shown marked improvement at 4CC. Plushenko, when interviewed elsewhere, also picked Evan for a podium finish.

    Back to who needs to do what:
    Johnny Weir needs to drop the generic choreo and find inspiration again.
    Virtue/Moir need to not experiment with the music this year. It was a good idea in 2009, but for an Olympic season, they should play to their strengths.
    The Zhangs should continue working on their expression. Their SP this year was a vast improvement over what they had in the past; they need to carry that into next season.
    Pechalat/Bourzat are not really podium contenders, but if they want to be, they must work on the CDs. They keep losing points on those. But like D/W, I think they mostly need the number 1 team to retire.
    Rachael Flatt needs to work on her posture; if she can't, she needs a new costume designer to disguise it.
    I'm thinking Jeremy Abbott might be another of the skaters in need of a good sports psychologist.
    Assuming he gets Tarasova as his choreographer, Joubert must not let her pick his music or costumes, and someone needs to ensure she gives him a CoP program rather than a 6.0 one.
    Good post Buttercup. Gives me things to watch for. Surely there are other skaters who need a bit of brushing up for the once every 4 year roundup.

    As for Kwan and Cohen, it's up to them to go through the proper procedures if either of them decides to return to competitive status. Personally, I do not think either will. Btw, I am not a fan of country gold medals. I prefer the best of the sport. There have been some Oly wins which I did not consider those skaters to be the 'best in the world'. So why worry about nationality.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Btw, I am not a fan of country gold medals. I prefer the best of the sport.

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    I for one don't feel Rachael's posture is a bad as Ando's. Bad posture didn't stop her from medalling. She was basically humped over during the entire freeskate.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsteam4501s View Post
    I believe this is going to become a major debate before next January. There are two major sides to it, both sides have good arguments. I happen to be on the side that believes that every good skater has, and should have, an adequate "window" of opportunity to enjoy the Olympic experience, medal or no medal.
    it will be a major debate up to that point ONLY if Kwan and/or Cohen choose to attempt a last-minute "OMG it's Olympics again!" comeback...other than that, it will be totally moot since the US field will consist of only newcomers

    Seriously, I don't even know why Kwan's name is in this. Sounds to me as if she is also considering other options such as show skating. A Cohen comeback I think is more likely, but we're talking maybe 1% vs. 0.01% - IOW, a biiiiiiig fat dose of "I'll believe it when I SEE it"
    Last edited by R.D.; 04-05-2009 at 03:12 PM.

  12. #72
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    About comebacks, Michelle didn't ask my opinion , but here it is anyway.

    Go forward, not back. Going backwards and winning another figure skating prize or two -- OK, whatever.

    The real treat, for this fan anyway, is seeing Michelle grow into a woman of substance.

  13. #73
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    Btw, I am not a fan of country gold medals. I prefer the best of the sport.
    That's a good stance to have. It's also a stance I personally won't take, for various reasons.

    When I first joined in 2002, 2003 I would have agreed. But now, without American lady in contention, my days here are numbered. I still watch now, but the excitement of days past is gone. (Definitely, some of the blame can be put on the NJS as well). I stick around because I think it's only a cycle and we've lots of talent at US Nats. I think once Kim and Asada retire, we'll have some good ones again (or I hope we do).

    When there were multiple American ladies out there, it was easy for me to be discerning and to look at the whole package. And complete coverage of this year's Worlds online allowed me to get a look at some of the lower-ranked skaters from elsewhere, which I liked. It gave me a better appreciation for how good the top skaters are.

    On the flip side, I'm happy an American man (finally) won a world championship. But that's not going to make me start watching men's skating.

  14. #74
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    Dance: DelSchoes, DomShabs, V&M and B&A need first and foremost to get and stay healthy. And they need not to be failing to attend their national championships.

    The biggest need of K&N, P&B, and D&W is to beat the national #1's at their national championships, and beat them again at 4CC's and Europeans. All three teams are, by a quirk of health and fate, already their national champions this year.

    B&A need an FD that they really really can relate to. They have been strong in ODs any number of times, but their FD's have been a problem. I think they need to choose something light hearted, which will fit their personalities better than operatic tragedies.

    B&A and Domshabs both need to work on getting level 4's on step sequences. Dostatni & tech specialist team members were quite forgiving in their level of skills they assigned at Worlds. If Judy Blumberg or one of the other tougher tech specialists is the lead at Olympics, they could really suffer. B&A need also to continue the carriage and extension & CD work they have done so well and to such profit this year with their new coaches. DomShabs also need to work on their dance spins, IMO. Maxim really needs to keep working with the physical therapist and his doctor, more than anything.

    V&M need to return to the romance type FD's that worked so well for them in Valse Triste and Umbrellas of Cherbourg. This year they showed they can expand and do more modern types of music--next year they should play to their strength. And they should not go for polka or Russian folk in their OD. I have doubts that they can do humor very successfully. They seem to be quite serious young people. Technically, other than staying healthy, the one thing they might work on is their dance spins. Their lifts are the best in the business right now.

    D&W already have the tech content down for the elements. (They had the highest tech score in the FD this year at Worlds) Other than B&A's retirement, what they need to do is work on posture and precise foot placement & extension.in an effort to pop up their Skating Skills PCS score. They made some improvements this year, but they have more to do. And they need to start learning the Tango Romantica and practicing the Golden Waltz right away. Their CD's are the weakest section of their competitions, always. And the CD's are a great place to work on their weaknesses. They also need to relax in the CD's. They seemed particularly tense this year. In the OD, they need not to be doing Russian folk again, and not picking hoedown. What they don't need to work on is projecting to the audience. It was obvious from the marvelous response they got in LA for their FD, that they have really done well on that (and it's a great improvement over the last 2 years).

    K&N need for DomShabs to retire. They also need some CD work. Because Jana is so short, the Golden Waltz is likely to be a particular challenge for them, and they should start working on it right away. I'd love to see them do something not classical for their FD. They did classical this year, and it was not nearly as good as their last year's FD (and didn't rate with the judges as well either). Good on them for stretching themselves, though!! Also, they should refrain from acrobatic lifts and besti squats as opening and closing moves in all CD's. I think their moves in the paso offended some of the judges who decided, "that's not a paso at all" and downgraded them accordingly. Also, do not use any costume suggestive of a vegetable (like Jana's lettuce OD costume) again. I love their overall creativity and can't wait to see what they come up with for their Olympic program!

    DelSchoes have the best CD's out there. However, they need to work a bit on their dance spins, and also need to avoid making mental lapse mistakes, a problem that has plagued them in the past. Above all, they need to be healthy. In a politicks free competition, if no one else improves much, I would expect them to win the Olympics in a walk.

    P&B are another team that really need to improve their CD's-they have been unable to score better than D&W and B&A, teams notorious for CD problems. They also need to arrive at their first competition totally prepared. They might well have done better at Worlds this year if they had arrived at Skate Canada in shape, and had not ended up at SC behind Crone Poirier and Davis & White. Their FD this year was a very open one, a reason that it didn't score outrageously well, given the level of its charm, and the fact that by Worlds, they received all level 4's.

    F&S-first they need to stay on their feet. The fall in the OD was disastrous to their hopes, and there will be fall out from it next year, too. Second they need to do something about their lifts. Granted they are nearly the same size; still DomShabs seem to be able to use that to their advantage. F&S keep using the same lifts, and also generic level 4 lifts that any of the top 20 skaters might do. With 4 lifts scored in the FD, the pedestrian nature of their lifts is a problem. They also have struggled all year with their dance spins and need to work on them. Also I'd like to see them do a very steamy Latin FD-the Beethoven thing didn't work for me on so many levels, and it never scored well. They had a wonderful Italian folk OD last year, and I hope they find an equally charming folk OD for the Olympic year.

    S&B need to wait for B&A (and D&W) to retire too. But they had timing problems at this years worlds in the CD. Great posture and toe point is good (and they have those), but timing is equally important. . The timing is particularly difficult in the Tango Romantica, and they should start working on it right away. And they need to work on their speed/power. They are not quite as fast as the top couples. They also need work on dance spins a lot. And please, I hope they choose n FD that does not have the droning, repetitive type of music they had this year. They seemed to love their OD, but their FD not so much. They need an FD they truly love.

  15. #75
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    In 2003 I would have agreed. But now, without American lady in contention, my days here are numbered. I still watch now, but the excitement of days past is gone. (Definitely, some of the blame can be put on the NJS as well). I stick around because I think it's only a cycle and we've lots of talent at US Nats. I think once Kim and Asada retire, we'll have some good ones again (or I hope we do).

    When there were multiple American ladies out there, it was easy for me to be discerning and to look at the whole package. And complete coverage of this year's Worlds online allowed me to get a look at some of the lower-ranked skaters from elsewhere, which I liked. It gave me a better appreciation for how good the top skaters are.
    I knew there must be an advantage to being from a country where even top-ten skaters are few and far between: I can pick favorites based on whose skating I like rather than who happens to travel on the same passport I do (actually, well, I travel on two different passports. But it's all legal!)

    But why would the retirement of Kim and Asada - which I hope is far away - mean good American ladies? It might just mean better results for currently off-the-podium skaters. As someone who watched way too much of the ladies event at 2009 Euros, let me tell you, you really don't want JV figure skating!

    Doris, I love your posts!

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