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Thread: Preparing for the 2010 Olympics - Top Contenders

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by gio View Post
    If Michelle Kwan or Sasha Cohen win Nationals and deserve it, then they should be sent, no matter what! Just as Silvia Fontana returned, beat Valentina Marchei and went to the Olympics.
    After all, also Elaine Zayak returned in 1994 and wanted to go to Olympics. She lost and didn't go.

    If one wants to go, she/he has to deserve it.

    I agree- but I hardly call waltzing into a competition because you know you've done this stuff before and you think you'll just BLOW the competition away "deserving it" at all. Even if they actually DO manage to place 1st or 2nd.

    An LA Times quote from Cohen during the Olympics REALLY had me going Huh?? I suppose she really does think in a similar manner to what I just said above. Definitely not "deserving" in my book. However, I will make the exception if she (either of them) does at least 1 international comp as well and therefore demonstrates that they are really in it "for real" and not just "for cameras and publicity". I'll totally be willing to send one or the other if they show me that they can do better than the current American field, and thus can save us from being shut out of the Olympic medals. Because in the end, it's all about the best shot at a medal, not about "the experience" or whatnot. I'm against their comeback now because I don't think they can be more competitive than our current ladies, and they have that much more "mileage" on them (i.e. think of an old sports car).
    Last edited by R.D.; 04-05-2009 at 04:08 PM.

  2. #77
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    But why would the retirement of Kim and Asada - which I hope is far away - mean good American ladies? It might just mean better results for currently off-the-podium skaters. As someone who watched way too much of the ladies event at 2009 Euros, let me tell you, you really don't want JV figure skating!
    What's JV? It's getting lost on me

    The retirement of Kim and Asada will do exactly that- push the other skaters up the rankings. It also could lower the bar, provided no one immediately bursts out to take their place. But most importantly, what it will do is even the playing field. After Asada, Rochette and Kim, everyone else in the top 10 is fair game for the top.

    That said, though, I'm not particularly in a hurry to push them out. I think the events will take place, and in the end it'll be their choice. And I don't think they will be the only ones heading out.

  3. #78
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    What's JV? It's getting lost on me
    Hey, you're the American! I only have an American past . JV means junior varsity, and even that's a stretch for much of what went on in Helsinki .

    I would love for Alena Leonova to have a breakthrough, before or after the usual post-Olys retirements. She's so adorable, and one of the few ladies who looks to be having fun on the ice.

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    ah, of course...I know the term but not the abbreviation

    This Leonova girl seems to be on her way up. I think she'll be a future contender. Haven't seen the last of the Russians yet!

    I did not watch the Euros. There was no need for me to, so I don't know what went on there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    The retirement of Kim and Asada will do exactly that- push the other skaters up the rankings. It also could lower the bar, provided no one immediately bursts out to take their place. But most importantly, what it will do is even the playing field. After Asada, Rochette and Kim, everyone else in the top 10 is fair game for the top.
    Aw, Dog, what kind of loser talk is that? I hope the big boys all leave the playground so I can play?

    The bigger they are, the harder thay fall! Win one for the Gipper! Go Michigan State against North Carolina tomorrow!

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Aw, Dog, what kind of loser talk is that? I hope the big boys all leave the playground so I can play? :
    I'm simply stating what I think would happen if they left. And I said immediately afterward (which you seemed to leave out of the quote):

    That said, though, I'm not particularly in a hurry to push them out.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    What's JV? It's getting lost on me

    The retirement of Kim and Asada will do exactly that- push the other skaters up the rankings. It also could lower the bar, provided no one immediately bursts out to take their place. But most importantly, what it will do is even the playing field. After Asada, Rochette and Kim, everyone else in the top 10 is fair game for the top.

    That said, though, I'm not particularly in a hurry to push them out. I think the events will take place, and in the end it'll be their choice. And I don't think they will be the only ones heading out.
    Jv means Junior Varisty. The point is that without Kim/Asada/Rochette/Ando (Kostner is hit and miss) the quality of ladies skating will go way down.. I seriously don't think a world podium of
    Flatt
    Lepisto
    (who was seventh Suguri, Leonova)
    is good for the sport. No way are these skaters going to wow the crowds or the viewers. Of course if these skaters improve, we have a different story.)

    Here's hoping for the sake of skating that Kim and Asada don't retire until people come along who are worthy to carry their mantle.
    Last edited by bekalc; 04-05-2009 at 05:26 PM.

  8. #83
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Doris, wonderful post about the dance teams. Just for the heck of it, what do you think the Kerrs and Capellini/Lanotte should work on? I want to see them move up!

    Quote Originally Posted by becalc
    Jv means Junior Varisty. The point is that without Kim/Asada/Rochette/Ando (Kostner is hit and miss) the quality of ladies skating will go way down.. I seriously don't think a world podium of
    Flatt
    Lepisto
    (who was seventh Suguri, Leonova)
    is good for the sport. No way are these skaters going to wow the crowds or the viewers. Of course if these skaters improve, we have a different story.)

    Here's hoping for the sake of skating that Kim and Asada don't retire until people come along who are worthy to carry their mantle.
    Hear, hear. I don't like the idea of pushing people out because they've had their turn. Elite sports are not about giving turns to younguns, they're about winning!

    And what kind of sport wants to eliminate the possibility of champions with longevity and well deserved fame for the sake of sharing the excitement? (Answer: an elementary school sport.)

    In the end, if Cohen or Kwan could come back and triumph, it would only be good for the sport, and if the younger Ladies can't beat them, well, shame on them.

    OTOH, if the returnees can't cut the mustard, I just hope they figure it out early on. What Alissa must be going through is slight compared to what Kwan or Cohen would go through if they ended up underperforming at the Olympics.
    Last edited by Spun Silver; 04-05-2009 at 05:41 PM.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post

    Here's hoping for the sake of skating that Kim and Asada don't retire until people come along who are worthy to carry their mantle.
    then you'd better hope that Kim doesn't win the Olympics...

    Actually, I can see one or the other retiring, but probably not both. Asada I could see sticking around until 2014, actually. But she's definitely beatable at this point.

    In the end, if Cohen or Kwan could come back and triumph, it would only be good for the sport, and if the younger Ladies can't beat them, well, shame on them.

    OTOH, if the returnees can't cut the mustard, I just hope they figure it out early on. What Alissa must be going through is slight compared to what Kwan or Cohen would go through if they ended up underperforming at the Olympics.
    They need to know that BEFORE they commit to the Olympic Games. Have officials monitor their practices, etc. And seriously, they'd only have, what...Skate America as international exposure (if invited)? Then it's Nationals (and I guess the qualifying sector in the case of MK).

    Injury is also a big deal for both skaters. Cohen has back/groin issues and gets sick a lot, and MK has her hip. I don't see either of them lasting long enough to have an impact, even if they WANTED to make the commitment 100%.

    As for Alyssa, most people expected her to have a rough segment of the competition, anyway. The expectations for her are rather low.

  10. #85
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    Gawd, let Kwan and Cohen make up their own minds and if they qualify for the 2010 Olymics, we can check them out. With that point system, I doubt they will win over the top 4 skaters in this past Worlds. Can you see Kwan and Cohen getting more than 200 points, and dont forget, PC relates to 95% more than artistry. This is the dawning of the Age of Acquarius.

    As for Skate Dance, there may have been a deal for Dom/Shabs for Worlds' gold and Khok/Nik for the Olys gold. It will be one or the other. Advice to other teams: Enjoy the experience.

    IMPORTANT I presume they will not use the music of the assigned decades for the OD. I really don't want to watch all the teams be ignored for a gold medal because they did not do a One-two-three One-two-three waltz for that period of time. It was a time for syncopated rhythms which bests describes the decades, and the steps were tricky. Just not a time for nostalgic waltzes. Otherwise, Rodgers' Carousel Waltz would have fitted into the scheme as would so many other national waltzes.

    I fear the syncopated era of dance music will be full of waltzes in years to come when this OD is chosen again.

  11. #86
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    Let us hope that when 20's,30's & 40's is used again that "waltz" is specifically forbidden.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    Doris, wonderful post about the dance teams. Just for the heck of it, what do you think the Kerrs and Capellini/Lanotte should work on? I want to see them move up!
    Kerrs- I totally love the Kerrs!!!

    One thing they need to do is stay with Platov! He made sure that they arrived at Skate America in shape, and prepared to skate their programs. This is something they never did in past years. When you saw them at Euros, you'd say, where did this wonderful team come from??? I didn't notice them in the GP...and when you looked back at their earlier event scores for the season, you could see it was because they did not score well and skated poorly in their first event, a little better in their second event, but they never made the podium in the GP until this year (2 third places, and third at Euros!). That is all due to new discipline and commitment to training. The result of bad rankings is that ice dance is partially a game of expectations. A bad fall GP season means a couple points off your CD and the judges don't catch up with the improvement until the FD, and by that time, you're mired way down in the standings. I can't stress that enough for them...arrive in October in tiptop shape. Their strengths are unique programs and a lot of commitment to the program when they skate. They had my very favorite folk OD last year I don't know what they'll do this year -- it's too bad that they used up the Scottish dance for a non-Olympic season, but who knew the ISU would do folk again so soon. However, catching the "character of the dance" is a strength of theirs. They did it again with 40's Lindy Hop & Swing again this year.
    They are a team that has had trouble with CD's, and I'm sure Platov will continue to make them work very hard on the CD's, especially since both the Tango Romantica & the Golden Waltz are both very difficult. They need to continue to work on their twizzles. They both & John famously have lots of trouble with twizzles. Platov has them doing mirror twizzles to conceal the lack of unison in twizzles, but you can't hide everything. Also they need to work on matching leg lines, and unison in general, and on John's feet, which aren't that tidy, particularly in footwork. I'd like to see them with some new lifts, as they do some lift recycling as well. (that handstand lift is in both the OD & FD for example).
    I'd never think to suggest what they should skate to--their choices are wonderful, and I'd rather be surprised!!!

    Capellini & Lanotte - are another team that have to wait for the number one team to retire. This year they worked like crazy to do better than F&S, but still finished behind them even with F&S falling in the OD. It has to be very discouraging for them. British Eurosport absolutely adores this team, even when they are not skating very well, as in the OD at Worlds, mostly because A: they're young B: Anna is gorgeous.

    Somewhat, I think they peak at the wrong time, but opposite of the Kerrs. They seemed much better to me at Cup of China than here at the end of the season. They should perhaps pace themselves a bit more. I think there is also a speed and power issue here, too. They also lose touch with the character of the dance from time to time. She smiled all the way through the paso, plus had odd headrolls. Not a good idea.

    Do you know the old original shaggy dog story? After a bunch of contests, the old man's shaggy dog is finally at the Worlds Shaggy Dog contest, having won all the qualifiers. And the the first judge says that's a shaggy dog. The second judge says, "That's a very shaggy dog." The third judge then says, "Nah, that's not a shaggy dog at all." You don't want to get to worlds and discover that your little paso character trick gets the judges thinking that's not a paso at all. It happened this year to K&N, and to a lesser extent to C&L, I think.

    C&L will definitely move up after the older couples retire. I'm thinking DelSchoes and B&A will retire after the Olympics. It's possible DomShabs will retire too. Maybe V&M, if they win gold. So 3 or 4 teams will be gone, and that would move C&L up to 6th.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 04-06-2009 at 12:09 AM.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    Besides, I think that also many skaters may see Lysacek as a really good competitor. Anyway, Lysacek won Joubert without a quad, as did Chan.
    I agree! I'm quite sure that his fellow competitors never take Evan lightly whenever they compete against him. He's always a force to be reckoned with imo - and I think, in theirs.

  13. #88
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    I sure hope the Kerrs and C/L or their coaches are reading, Doris. Your posts will also help me see the skating better. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Jv means Junior Varisty. The point is that without Kim/Asada/Rochette/Ando (Kostner is hit and miss) the quality of ladies skating will go way down.. I seriously don't think a world podium of
    Flatt
    Lepisto
    (who was seventh Suguri, Leonova)
    is good for the sport. No way are these skaters going to wow the crowds or the viewers. Of course if these skaters improve, we have a different story.)

    Here's hoping for the sake of skating that Kim and Asada don't retire until people come along who are worthy to carry their mantle.
    Do they really have to retire? They are so young!

    Points against retirement
    -Will the Japanese, South Korean and Canadian federations pressure Asada, Ando, Kim and Joannie not to retire? Those countries don't have (as for now!!!) successfull junior skaters.
    -There are way less possibilities in professional skating than in the 90s, when every successfull skater (with the exception of MK) wanted to retire and skate in the Mecca of FS (the United States). Now that FS is in a big crisis in the US and there are no professional competition and few professional shows, what's the point of pursuing a professional career? In Japan or Korea? Maybe, but it's not the same as in the US in the 90s and the mania will probably (I could be wrong) last until the skaters of those countries will be successfull.
    -Coaching and choreographing? I may be wrong, but I think there are way too many coaches and choreographers. Maybe they should go to an emerging country (a country willing to invest in FS, to produce successfull skaters in the future) and share they knowledge. Obviously the have to be paid enough.

    Points in favour
    -Singing, Modelling, Acting

    As for the skating quality going down, if they prematurely retire, I agree.
    But there are also promising young skaters that could surprise us : Binwa Geng, Caroline Zhang, the young Russians. So there is hope.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    I sure hope the Kerrs and C/L or their coaches are reading, Doris. Your posts will also help me see the skating better. Thanks!
    Doris writes about Dance as nobody else can. She gives good constructive criticisms for each of the teams, but for me, I see the three top fiinishers in the CD to be on the podium as the medalists. Of course, if Barbara Fusar Poli (sp) returns, that could change.

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