Interview with Vodorezova (Ten's coach)

[hanca]

That quote also interested me a great deal. Is it only in skating that Russian girls are always treated as lazy (and OK to yell at) or is this how young girls are treated vs. young boys in the culture at large?

It certainly might explain why Russian has had fewer excellent girls in singles than it has had men. Who would want to deal with that kind of abuse day after day?

It doesn't really explain why Russian has had fewer excellent girls in singles than it has had men. "Who would want to deal with that kind of abuse day after day????" How would you then explain that they have such strong ladies in gymnastics? I am sure they are yelled at too and a lot!

[Ptichka]

Well, I think "who wants to deal with it" is not the point. Under Soviet system, sports offered one of the few ways of getting to "the better life" honestly. What is true, though, is that this approach often just does not work. Being yelled at repeatedly lowers one's self esteem, and that doesn't help with winning competitions. Gymnastics is different, I think, because really young girls still have a different psychology than the older ones; in fact, much of the FS successes in pairs has come from pairs where the girl is still very young, and can be treated this way. Another explanation, BTW, is that the Soviet system worked on athletes through pure pressure, and that doesn't work on women as well as it does on men. Perhaps that's what creates the appearance of ladies being more lazy - ambition and overdone competitive spirit may be enough to propel men in situations when it's just not enough for the ladies.

[hanca]

Well, I think "who wants to deal with it" is not the point. Under Soviet system, sports offered one of the few ways of getting to "the better life" honestly. What is true, though, is that this approach often just does not work. Being yelled at repeatedly lowers one's self esteem, and that doesn't help with winning competitions. Gymnastics is different, I think, because really young girls still have a different psychology than the older ones; in fact, much of the FS successes in pairs has come from pairs where the girl is still very young, and can be treated this way. Another explanation, BTW, is that the Soviet system worked on athletes through pure pressure, and that doesn't work on women as well as it does on men. Perhaps that's what creates the appearance of ladies being more lazy - ambition and overdone competitive spirit may be enough to propel men in situations when it's just not enough for the ladies.

I agree that the girls in Russia may not have had too much say in whether they are going to skate or not. (or at least in the past)

However, I don't agree that the pressure and shouting doesn't work on women. From my own experience, I skate much better if my coach shouts at me (I know, it is quite embarassing to admit it). And when she shouts AND skates one meter behind me while I am doing my program run through, unbelievable how well I can skate. Maybe there is something about the lazyness, although I do honestly try my best even when my coach is not shouting. I don't think I am lazy. But the loud voice, or even loud voice and the presence of the coach just behind me can push me to really good and clean program...

[Fashionista]

So the opinion about girls being lazy and needing shouting whereas boys being more focused may be one of the things she just learned as a child and never really questioned it.

Oh yes, you're right, it might be.

[Buzzz]

Thanks for the article and I look forward to seeing Ten & Sotnikova skate in the future.

[DoubleAxelFacePlant]

Thank you so much for sharing this precious article with us!

It sounds like Elena is ultra-traditional and that she is a good first major coach for Denis. She is polishing a diamond that may still be rough around the edges. But if Denis wants to go out with guns blazing and become a serious contender, I think he will need a top technical coach like Mishin. Denis' jumps, as beautifully postured they are, do suffer from some underrotation and are less powerful than some of the top guys. He is also not as fast as his peers. His Worlds LP, however, absolutely floored me and he was the best surprise to me in a long time, not just in skating, but anything from life.

Unfortunately, I must say Elena does sound a bit bigoted. Any time a person makes generalizations that state a certain group of people (i.e. race, gender, nationality, organization) is a certain way, I cringe. It tends towards bigotry. I think her interview makes her sound like some kind of diva with loads of experience, knowledge, and technique, but her competitive record does not show she is exceptionally talented or that she's coached champion after champion. I can see that she has influenced Denis' gorgeous line, however.

If I can read anything substantial into her comments, could she mean that girls are just more adverse to high-risk jumping and doing the revolutions than boys?

[antmanb]

Thank you so much for sharing this precious article with us!

It sounds like Elena is ultra-traditional and that she is a good first major coach for Denis. She is polishing a diamond that may still be rough around the edges. But if Denis wants to go out with guns blazing and become a serious contender, I think he will need a top technical coach like Mishin. Denis' jumps, as beautifully postured they are, do suffer from some underrotation and are less powerful than some of the top guys. He is also not as fast as his peers.

But don't forget he's just 15 years old. As he gets older he will become more powerful and his muscel mass will increase to help with this. His jumps look like they have sound technique even if they do lack power, so once the power comes (and it surely will through age) he'll be on track.

Ant