Is Yu-Na more similar to Katarina rather than Michelle?

[antmanb]

I can deal with attacks. It seems that some fans have transferred the crazy from Michelle onto Yu Na. Yu Na is a pretty girl but I don't feel her skating warrants the excessive praise that is heaped onto it. When I compare her to Sasha or Michelle, I just don't see that finished quality to her skating. I don't think you can even put the blame on COP as Sasha and Shizuka (!) were outstanding COP skaters and had lovely programs with finished movements. Even Joannie exhibits more polish and puts more thought into her performance than Yu Na.

Well every single skater you mentioned (Michelle, Sasha, Shizuka, Joannie) all grew up, learnt to skate and hit seniors and competed for the majority of their competitive lives under 6.0. Isn't it possilbe, plausible, even that the skaters that grew up in a system where you did what you could, and did it well subject only to having a "balanced programme", are going to be more polished, finish their moves better etc etc, than the skaters who have groen up under a system that rewards quantity over quality?

Why would a skater do something with finesse, polish or finish it properly if judges are too stingey with +GOEs? If the simple maths is do a level 4 poorly, because the points are far higher than a level 1 with +GOE (which in any event you're not likely to get).

Or are are we simply comparing 16-18 year olds with 24+ year olds so there is going to be no comparison in terms of polish?

Who knows?

Ant

[antmanb]

I think I agree on this, Yuna has something in her posture that I dont like, but I dont know what it is. I love her intense moves but in slow pieces I miss something, like she is rushing. She is an exceptional skater of course and probably the best around now. But I like the lightness of Mao and Miki's strech and posture is the best. Yesterday I saw a Caroline video, I loved her , I havent seen much of her.

Miki's posture is the best??? Really? I couldn't disagree more! I think of all the elite skaters Miki's posture is still the worst. She has worked very hard on it, that much is true, but she still falls behind most of the skaters in the tope 10 and lower in terms of posture.

Ant

[seniorita]

I like her arms and her lines and extention, she has something royal in her body expression, isnt this all what posture means?
the bizarre thing would be if we didnt disagree

[antmanb]

I like her arms and her lines and extention, she has something royal in her body expression, isnt this all what posture means?
the bizarre thing would be if we didnt disagree

You're so right Seniorita i think the world might end if we did actually agree on a skater (though i think we may both love Weir's skating no?).

With her posture i actually meant her back specifically - she tends to skate hunched over slightly and pumps her back when gaining speed in cross overs (reminding me of Slutskaya - though i think Irina's back pumping was worse than Miki's). I think she has learnt to use her arms better but i still think her lines aren't the best.

Ant

[seniorita]

Yes we dont want the world to end, do we?
Strangely enough I have figured out which skaters you dont like(like that was hard ) but I have no idea of your fav skaters Yes, Weir is second best now Lambiel retired The japanese come next
Strange i think yuna skates with hunched shoulders also, pumps her back what does it mean?

[cosmos]

I witnessed lots of commentators of NBC, CBC, CBC in French, British Eurosport, Russian Eurosport, RTR, German Eurosport, CC TV, France 3-TV and Teledeporte (TDP) marveled at Yu-na's porformances at 2009 Worlds.
But i think everybody has a different taste and preference.

True! Skating forum is not a proper place to ask its opinion of a skater. Members are eager fans of some skaters and often biased. (I am not blaming anybody). General audience' reaction in a competition is more direct and honest.

Fortunately, YuNa is appreciated by many experts like Sonia Bianchetti. Below is the link to her LA Worlds commentary. (If this was posted before, sorry).

http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/curre...9%20Worlds.htm

Yu Na was in a class of her own. She is so natural and elegant. I was impressed by her ability in expressing and interpreting the music, by the harmony of all her movements, by the excellent choreography. Her short program was superb, one of the best programs I can remember in a long time. It made me cry! She made me feel that "artistic emotion" that I have been missing for many years.

This program will go down in skating history like the Bolero of Torvill and Dean, Katarina Witt's Carmen, Kurt Browning’s Casablamca or Yagudin’s Winter. Thank you Yu Na

[Joesitz]

I don't get the comparison offered between Kwan and Witt. Why those two should be compared with YuNa is kind off in left field. No?

[antmanb]

Yes we dont want the world to end, do we?
Strangely enough I have figured out which skaters you dont like(like that was hard ) but I have no idea of your fav skaters Yes, Weir is second best now Lambiel retired The japanese come next
Strange i think yuna skates with hunched shoulders also, pumps her back what does it mean?

By pumps her back I mean - if you watch (particulary Irina) doing back cross overs - watch her back specifically in order to go faster her back moves up and down in time with the cross-overs. This is usually a result of exerting more perssure in trying to go faster. That is usually a sign of weak edges/bad technique as the speed should be generated by pressure on the blade, lean into the edge, or depth of edge. Good skaters with great edges (like most ice dancer) will never pump with their back to go faster they can rely on the purity of their running edge - like Ilia Kulik!

I think the reason you hear less and less about my favourite skaters is that no-one right now is really standing out for me. I never used to watch the ladies (i found them really boring) until a young 14 year old named Michelle Kwan came along and between her and Slutskaya i was hooked on the ladies. Now i'm just not that bothered. I really like watching both Mao and Yuna, but the element-fest that is COP means that none of their programmes have ever excited me (or moved me) like programmes of Kwan or Slutskaya. Plus the music choices of the ladies is just so zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz that it doesn't normally hold interest.

The men right now are very interesting. I love Weir's skating, i also love Joubert's skating (but you'll note even my favourites are not immune to my criticism). I really enjoyed Abbott's performances on the GP last year and hope he can reach that level again. Takahashi is another skater i also really like, even though it took me a while to "get it". I also really like Tomas Verner and wish he could skate more consistently. I also have a soft spot for Van de Perren even though his presentation skills leave an awful lot to be desired!

And as for pairs - it was my original favourite discipline - the thing that made me start watching figure skating. For me, COP has cmopletely ruined this discipline with inane rules and difficulties. It's limited the lifts that the top pairs do, the spins are awful, the death spirals are ugly and horrible and the step sequences/sprial sequences drive me insane. That doesn't leave much does it? Under 6.0 is was quicker to give you the short list of pairs that i didn't like. Now I find the discipline boring and fast forward through programmes most of the time. I do love the germans and wish they#d been able to skate under 6.0. And if Shen & Zhou come back for the Olympics (and they're on the GP roster) then i may actually pee my pants watching them skate

Ant

[seniorita]

we dont have such much difference in taste afterall, i agree with pairs and men(no lambiel and yagudin?) , ( but I cant believe your fav is joubert, for no other reason just after all your remarks in plush thread , i would never imagine you like his style)
I enjoy ladies a lot, although noone has the place in my heart like irina and kwan. szizuka came close though.
thanx for pumps explaining, i ll start to pay attentionAlthough I think I know what you describe and I like how they move, i have not connected it with weak edges though.

[antmanb]

we dont have such much difference in taste afterall, i agree with pairs and men(no lambiel and yagudin?) , ( but I cant believe your fav is joubert, for no other reason just after all your remarks in plush thread , i would never imagine you like his style)
I enjoy ladies a lot, although noone has the place in my heart like irina and kwan. szizuka came close though.
thanx for pumps explaining, i ll start to pay attentionAlthough I think I know what you describe and I like how they move, i have not connected it with weak edges though.

Sorry i only spoke about the current men because they interest me (unlike the ladies) Yagudin has to be one of my favourite male skaters (although this does not make me immune to some of his issues as a skater). Lambiel i only really apprciated competitively when he did his Flamenco programmes. I loved him as an up and coming junior but hated his competitive programmes after COP was introduced. He's one skater i'd much more happily watch in exhibition rather than competition - expecially his spins

Joubert I really do actually like his skating an awful lot. I do criticise things i don't like (i'll have to dig out the posts i wrote about Yagudin's straightline step sequence in winter which i thought was absolutely ridiculous - the toe pick steps in it looked so silly to me, much like Joubert's running man! I still loved winter as a programme despite the step sequence! I'd have hated it even moer had i known what it would do to step sequences in the future!) but ultimately i love nearly all of his music choices and despite sometimes having questionable or non existant choreography i really do like his style a lot. As a person, however, most of what he says turns me off him, but he's seemingly learnt some humility of late.

Also i adored Buttle's skating!

Ant

[soogar]

Well every single skater you mentioned (Michelle, Sasha, Shizuka, Joannie) all grew up, learnt to skate and hit seniors and competed for the majority of their competitive lives under 6.0. Isn't it possilbe, plausible, even that the skaters that grew up in a system where you did what you could, and did it well subject only to having a "balanced programme", are going to be more polished, finish their moves better etc etc, than the skaters who have groen up under a system that rewards quantity over quality?

Why would a skater do something with finesse, polish or finish it properly if judges are too stingey with +GOEs? If the simple maths is do a level 4 poorly, because the points are far higher than a level 1 with +GOE (which in any event you're not likely to get).

Or are are we simply comparing 16-18 year olds with 24+ year olds so there is going to be no comparison in terms of polish?

Who knows?

Ant

Maybe you have a point there. However there have been a lot of sloppy skaters under the old 6.0 system as well so perhaps attention to detail is more a trait within the skater than dictated by the system. I thought COP brought out the best in Shizuka. Irina was always sloppy, whether it was 6.0 or COP.

Michelle and Tara were very polished 15-16 year olds under the 6.0 system. I don't think Michelle's artistry evolved much from her mid to late teen peak. Sasha always had beautiful movements from the start of her skating career as well.

I listen to commentary about Yu Na and Mao and this might be the very first quad in which I am over the love poured into these two girls- particularly Yu Na. With so much praise, what incentive is there for her to improve her skating? She's far from perfect. She's a very good skater but from the way people gush about her you would think she was the second coming of Midori Ito.

I'm another poster who prefers Miki's skating to that of Mao and Yu Na. Despite Miki's stamina issues at Worlds, I think she moves better across the ice and has better edges than the other two- plus she was the only woman who landed a fully loaded program.

[janetfan]

I'm another poster who prefers Miki's skating to that of Mao and Yu Na. Despite Miki's stamina issues at Worlds, I think she moves better across the ice and has better edges than the other two- plus she was the only woman who landed a fully loaded program.

I am a fan of Miki but to me she is a wildly inconsistent skater. Brilliant at times and "Queen of the Meltdown" at other times. I think with slightly better posture and better transitional skating she might be my favorite.

[soogar]

I am a fan of Miki but to me she is a wildly inconsistent skater. Brilliant at times and "Queen of the Meltdown" at other times. I think with slightly better posture and better transitional skating she might be my favorite.

True she is inconsistent.. but not more inconsistent than Shizuka so maybe she will pull out the Olympic win.

I think that most of my puzzlement is directed towards Mao and not Yu Na. Mao doesn't even have a full set of triples. Strange to see a modern era skater missing a 3 lutz. Isn't she missing a 3 toe as well? I remember there were a few jumps she was missing.

[antmanb]

True she is inconsistent.. but not more inconsistent than Shizuka so maybe she will pull out the Olympic win.

I think that most of my puzzlement is directed towards Mao and not Yu Na. Mao doesn't even have a full set of triples. Strange to see a modern era skater missing a 3 lutz. Isn't she missing a 3 toe as well? I remember there were a few jumps she was missing.

No Mao had problems with the toe-loop and salchow in previous years but she includes both in her programmes. She has also worked very hard to clean up her lutz this season hence missing it most of the time in the SP while she learns to hold that outside edge.

I'm also not sure why you would be so bothered by a lack of complete set of triples from Mao (even though she attempts all of them including the axel over both long and short programmes for a 6 out of 6 on the triples front) when Yuna does not attempt either the loop or the axel in her programmes giving her 4 out of 6?

I'm just wondering why you think it is strange seeing a "modern era skater" missing a 3 Lutz when we had Olympic champs Lipiniksi and Hughes without a clean triple Lutz. For as along as the US has been at the top, it's ladies have had issues with the Lutz. Seems to be more of a trend of late, with the true lutz jumpers being in the minority!

Ant

[soogar]

I'm just wondering why you think it is strange seeing a "modern era skater" missing a 3 Lutz when we had Olympic champs Lipiniksi and Hughes without a clean triple Lutz. For as along as the US has been at the top, it's ladies have had issues with the Lutz. Seems to be more of a trend of late, with the true lutz jumpers being in the minority!

Ant

A lot of ladies have issues with the lutz- and ladies with a true lutz have issues with the flip. So I think they should just stick it in there try to make it happen.

I think it's strange that she has problems with the salchow and the loop- I think she had problems with those jumps in her Worlds program as well- but overall her program had a few mistakes. Those are beginning triples for most skaters. Either way there is a lack of sureness in her skating. I'm just not into her skating.

If I am not mistaken, Yu Na did a double axel in her LP. With Mao being the only woman who does a triple axel, why would I get disturbed if Yu Na doesn't have one?