Ladies Short Program

antmanb · Apr 17, 2009

cosmos said:
No, it is a team trophy. ISU Championships include Euro, 4CC, World, Oly, Nebelhorn.

Nebelhorn is definitely not an ISU Championship - it's senior "B" competition.

Ant

antmanb · Apr 17, 2009

Medusa said:
Others actually rotate quite a bit on the ice on their 3As, Joubert is an example (the 3A was his least favourite jump when he was younger) - Lysacek and Lambiel too. I think what Mao does is comparable to Joubert's technique. Of course Joubert's looks powerful, but if you study it with some turtle-slow-mo you can see that he prerotates about half a turn and cheats it nearly every time by a quarter turn.

The main thing I notice about Joubert's triple axel is the lack of "step up" into the axel. The men tend to fall into two categories - the ones who kick the free leg through bent and jump up towards the free leg rotating around it (which i think looks better, gives the jump a delayed feel, and pop off the take off edge with little or no pre-rotation) which looks like a "step up" (skaters like Yags, Plush, Stojko jump it this way). Then there's the others who don't kick the leg very far through and skid the take off edge when getting off the ice. The skid means they pre-rotate to a degree, some worse than others. Joubert usually jumps like this but doesn't pre-rotated more than a 1/4 turn.

Ant

antmanb · Apr 17, 2009

Mathman said:
Looks good to me.

Yu-na Kim isn't even at this competition. If she were, we would see a Korean video titled, "Mao's triple Axel is only 1.2 rotations."

Are you kidding Mathman, I've not even watched the SP but i know all she did was a Waltz Jump+Mazurka - that Mao Asada can barely even jump up and down let alone rotate

Ant

marscindy · Apr 17, 2009

Medusa said:
I think you simply assume that. Some men have close to zero prerotation on their 3As (e.g. Ponsero, Voronov, Chan, Abbott too, I think). Note that some of those have big problems with their 3As, especially Chan and Abbott but Ponsero too at times. It's like Browning with the least prerotated Triple Lutz ever - but he rarely landed a clean one.

Others actually rotate quite a bit on the ice on their 3As, Joubert is an example (the 3A was his least favourite jump when he was younger) - Lysacek and Lambiel too. I think what Mao does is comparable to Joubert's technique. Of course Joubert's looks powerful, but if you study it with some turtle-slow-mo you can see that he prerotates about half a turn and cheats it nearly every time by a quarter turn.

I can add that with turtle-slow-mo even Weir's jumps are underrotated sometimes, and the 3-3 of Kim is also more a 3-2,5 - she always prerotates at least one quarter on the ice and underrotates just slightly less than one quarter. Her 3-3 is so well placed in the far end of the rink and she jumps it on a curve - so it's really hard to spot. It still looks great and I don't think that it should be downgraded, just like clean Axel from Joubert won't be downgraded in the future.

I know every edge jump has prerotation. And when Weir's do underrotation, his score show it. Lysacek, too(I also don't like Lysacek's 3A. But Weir's 3A is quite cool. Anyway when they don't do 3A well, the scores show it.). And Yuna's 3-3 is 3-2.7~2.8. It is great 3-3. But yesterday Mao's 3A-2T was 3A-1T. Also her 3A was not good quality. Although there is prerotation, her prerotation is quite over. Anyway her 1T was allowed as 2T. Don't say the men's 3A is not good quality. If you say so Mao's 3A...hm...And her step...level 4???

hikki · Apr 17, 2009

Double penalty for "underrotation"

It's beyond belief that Flatt's 3/3 was called short!
Miki's 3/3 was was only a quarter short, yeah?

This aspect of the judging needs serious attention before the Olympics!

Yay Mao!!

wishmaker · Apr 17, 2009

antmanb said:
Are you kidding Mathman, I've not even watched the SP but i know all she did was a Waltz Jump+Mazurka - that Mao Asada can barely even jump up and down let alone rotate

Ant

You have not watched the SP yet and you know already what she has done!!!!!!!Then, how can you comment on something when you haven't any information of the matter. Wow, are you brazen!!!!!! For your information, Claire de Lune is not a Waltz music and MAO did not "Waltz Jump+Mazurka" to it. Watch the SP first, then comment whether Mao "can barely even jump up and down let alone rotate".

coconutpunch · Apr 17, 2009

wishmaker said:
Entire Post

Ant was being sarcastic.
Wait a second, are you being sarcastic too and spamming exclamation marks on purpose?

Gosh, its so hard to decipher the subtleties of text-only communication sometimes... :eek:

mskater93 · Apr 17, 2009

coconutpunch said:
Gosh, its so hard to decipher the subtleties of text-only communication sometimes...

I thought Ant was, uh, less than subtle in his attempted humor. :rofl:

antmanb · Apr 17, 2009

wishmaker said:
You have not watched the SP yet and you know already what she has done!!!!!!!Then, how can you comment on something when you haven't any information of the matter. Wow, are you brazen!!!!!! For your information, Claire de Lune is not a Waltz music and MAO did not "Waltz Jump+Mazurka" to it. Watch the SP first, then comment whether Mao "can barely even jump up and down let alone rotate".

I might have to give up on my mocking of the rabid Bots if people start actually thinking i'm writing things like that seriously. Is there a head slapping smilie anywhere?

Edit - thankfully most people realised i was mocking the bots.

Ant

wishmaker · Apr 17, 2009

antmanb said:
I might have to give up on my mocking of the rabid Bots if people start actually thinking i'm writing things like that seriously. Is there a head slapping smilie anywhere?

Edit - thankfully most people realised i was mocking the bots.

Ant

No, don't give up..actually your reactions are very entertaining and I do hope you can read in between the lines and keep that British humour going

PolymerBob · Apr 17, 2009

OK, OK. Come on guys, if we're going to argue, let's argue about the really important stuff.........

Like which of the top 3 ladies is going to get mule-kicked off the podium. :biggrin:

museksk8r · Apr 17, 2009

hikki said:
It's beyond belief that Flatt's 3/3 was called short!

I agree! I'm baffled.

Alicja · Apr 17, 2009

museksk8r said:
I agree! I'm baffled.

Same here. I've watched it more than twice on replay and it looks just fine, probably a bit short but not more than 1/4.

gold12345 · Apr 17, 2009

Alicja said:
Same here. I've watched it more than twice on replay and it looks just fine, probably a bit short but not more than 1/4.

Yes, it's very annoying. It's like they are so used to Flatt, Zhang, etc, underrotating their 3-3s that they don't even bother to seriously look at the jump when they actually rotate it!

Mehdi · Apr 17, 2009

Mathman said:
Looks good to me.

It sure does. This is ridiculous ...

PROKOFIEV · Apr 17, 2009

marscindy said:
I'm sure men's 3A has good qualities because they are men. But Mao's 3A is not good. [It is not about men and women. It is about powers and skills.]

See men's 3A. And then see Mao's 3A. Men's 3A is full but Mao's 3A is just 3 turns because she turns 180 on the ice before she jumps. So I don't like her 3A and I don't think it is a great quailty.

Are you Korean? Who care?

a cl

It is almost necessary to skid forward take off on axels, especially double and definitely triple axel. I do not know any skaters who can land perfect triple axel with a clean edge take off. Here is an example of Yagudin's triple axel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik_-azVq6eA

LeCygne · Apr 17, 2009

TrueAndJutice said:
Head : 2.0 turn
skate : 1.0 turn

I don't know how that's even possible. I don't know about you, but I'm no owl. I can't turn my head 180 degrees around. I doubt Mao can either.

PolymerBob said:
Like which of the top 3 ladies is going to get mule-kicked off the podium.

Haha, I like this idea. I say Joannie. Sounds like she didn't have such a good SP, I'm surprised she tied Miki, who looked good except the 3-3.

gold12345 said:
It's like they are so used to Flatt, Zhang, etc, underrotating their 3-3s that they don't even bother to seriously look at the jump when they actually rotate it!

I hear you! I've often felt this way. Like when Caroline actually approached normal speed a few times earlier this season, people thought I was crazy and needed my eyes checked..

PROKOFIEV · Apr 17, 2009

Here is a beautiful double axel of Yu Na kim with skid on take off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdncl36nDug

BTW , I think Rachael's 3/3 was perfect and Caroline should have gotten a credit for it, too.

jaws12345 · Apr 17, 2009

What a silly competition this is

What a silly competition it is... So anti-climactic. Team Trophy! So nationalistic the idea is, very much against the tradition of individuality of the sport. I wonder who came up with the idea. Instead of putting their tired bodies to a rest, poor skaters get dragged into a completely meaningless competition after the season is over because some country with lots of sponsors want to prove something. It is depressing to see that the world's top skaters are treated like clowns in a variety show. Hopefully no one gets injured in the process.

Andalusia · Apr 17, 2009

LeCygne said:
I don't know how that's even possible. I don't know about you, but I'm no owl. I can't turn my head 180 degrees around. I doubt Mao can either.

Lol.

I think it's obvious the bots are threatened, or they wouldn't be in here blabbing about a skater they detest. They must be worried Mao can beat Yu-Na if she's firing on all cylinders. What I can't stand is the downplaying of Mao's score -- "Oh, it's just a cheesefest, so her score won't count for anything, and besides, the event's in Japan" -- it belittles Mao's achievement. Where I disagree with the scoring is in the nitpicking on skaters like Rachael and Caroline, whose 3-3s could've been permissibly ratified - if Mao had been given the same kind of scrutiny, she might've been downgraded, too. And about her Level 4 footwork - all of Evan's flailing in both the footwork sequences in his LP didn't even warrant them to be graded a Level 4, so people can draw their own conclusions on how Mao was graded.

As for Miki, her 3L looks fully rotated at first glance, but in the slow-mo replay one can see her foot turns quite a bit on the landing, so the downgrade might've been justified.

This user has most of the ladies' SPs in pristine HD:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=F22EJRaptor&view=videos

I must say Caroline looks faster in HD, and despite the score, this is the best she's performed that SP all season! :clap:

Ladies Short Program

antmanb

antmanb

antmanb

marscindy

hikki

wishmaker

coconutpunch

mskater93

antmanb

wishmaker

PolymerBob

museksk8r

Alicja

gold12345

Mehdi

PROKOFIEV

LeCygne

PROKOFIEV

jaws12345

Match Penalty

Andalusia

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