World Team Trophy: Final Thoughts | Page 2 | Golden Skate

World Team Trophy: Final Thoughts

wishmaker

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Well, my final thoughts on the WTT2009 : No matter what some people said that it's anti-climactic or with no significance at all, I think that it was good because the skaters, as I saw, were able to do their programs with so much ease and less anxiety, in spite of all the fatigue and busy schedules, much better than the worlds. They really delivered. With the K&C podiums of different countries, skaters of different nationalities showed their spirit of comraderie and appreciations of whoever the skater on the ice was. It was a good feeling to see all the skaters cheering their fellow countrymen and much more with their competitors. It was a very healthy situation for the competitors. And I think it was gratifying to know that they have been compensated as well, which is very helpful considering the economic situation we're in. And to top it all, the audience were very appreciative to all skaters regardless of their nationality,pepping them up while they were skating, and not at all rude or rowdy. So, to end a season, I think the WTT was a very good idea for skaters to come together and appreciate each other without any stress.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
What about countries with only strong singles? Isn't that also an example of the rich getting richer? If you look at the case of Japan, the competition is basically saying they don't have to worry at all about improving their pairs and dance. Having depth in ladies and men is good enough for them.

It is good enough if they want to finish third. If they want to win, they will have to improve their pairs and dance programs.

wishmaker said:
To MATHMAN - Thank you for all your comments and feedbacks and infos.,,

What a nice thing to say. Thank you. :)
 

Danale

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
First, I’d like to second the appreciation to MM. and also to the other knowledgeable members of the forum. It’s great to read your comments and I learn a lot from them.

Second, regarding the WTT.
I thought the original idea was to encourage diversity in the teams. So the discussion on how many skaters to send from each discipline is kind of moot. Any decision will be better for some teams and less good for others.
I know it’s slightly naïve to think it’s that was the hole agenda of ISU, and part of it was meant to please the hosts. But is it really that different from other competitions? Seems to me like the hosting country usually gets some “hosting bonus”.
I think the competition was fun, the skaters seemed to enjoy it (despite the comments). Nationality always played part in the competition, and it was fun for me to see it officially part of the game (the K&C for example). I also liked the fact that the team could send younger skaters to take part and gain experience in a senior competition.
Like someone posted: I don’t know if it’ll last, but if someone is willing to pay – I’ll be happy to see a great made for TV event with some of my favorite skaters. And how great was it to see Stephan again?
 

PolymerBob

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
It is good enough if they want to finish third. If they want to win, they will have to improve their pairs and dance programs.

I think the Japanese will look at this as a wake-up call. They went into this event all full of pi** and vinegar, only to finish 3rd - in front of thousands of cheering fans - and millions of TV viewers. They cannot feel too good about this. :disapp:
 

kandidy

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
I think the Japanese will look at this as a wake-up call. They went into this event all full of pi** and vinegar, only to finish 3rd - in front of thousands of cheering fans - and millions of TV viewers. They cannot feel too good about this. :disapp:

No, just to see Mao landed three triple axels is enough for them.
 

steyn

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
An interesting take. Actually, the event was announced more than a year ago. (March, 2008, ISU Communication #1490.)
Thank you for the information. On the other hand it is also hard to believe that the article came out of nothing. The reporter of the article probably had his/her own credible source of information considering that the statements "But the ISU threw this event at the skaters without consultation. As late as a fortnight ago, it was not even a certainty." are quite specific.

So we have two facts: 1. WTT was announced more than a year ago. 2. Neverthless it was not a certainty until very recently.

I guess the only consistent way to combine these two facts is as follows. Even if it was officially announced more than a year ago and probably candidate skaters were asked to participate in WTT long time ago, many of them refused or showed little interest until very recently. Then of course ISU and/or the federations worked hard to "persuade" the skaters. During that process some people complained and the article came out.

I just hope that they will not push skaters too much next time. Let skaters decide.
 

PolymerBob

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
I am really not sure how much persuasion was actually required. It sounds like a little arm twisting was used, but how much arm twisting is really needed with a $ 30,000 paycheck?
 

kittyjake5

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
I am really not sure how much persuasion was actually required. It sounds like a little arm twisting was used, but how much arm twisting is really needed with a $ 30,000 paycheck?

Not much. The skaters might have balked initially about competing so soon after Worlds but earning a much needed sizable paycheck was the icing on the cake. Also the skaters seemed to be having a whole lot of fun.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Thank you for the information. On the other hand it is also hard to believe that the article came out of nothing. The reporter of the article probably had his/her own credible source of information considering that the statements "But the ISU threw this event at the skaters without consultation. As late as a fortnight ago, it was not even a certainty." are quite specific.

Indeed. I thought that was very interesting, too.

However, my first thought was that they must have had continuing negotiations among the financial players -- the ISU, the Japanese Skating Federation, the Japanese television networks, and the corporate sponsors which ultimately paid the bills. Maybe the plan was still on shaky footing -- or in any case, the pricipals were arguing about the details of who pays what to whom -- right up to the last minute.

I really do not believe that the wishes of the skaters were consulted or taken into account. The only indispensible skater was Asada (as Kandidy alludes above. :) ) Once Mao signed, it wouldn't really matter to the big money guys if Belbin and Agosto refused to skate and they got Davis and White instead.

(What I hope happened was that Asada told her agent to hold out out for an extra hundred grand under the table. :) )
 

jjane45

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
I absolutely LOVED the event, particularly the team spirit throughout kiss and cry. :biggrin:
I have perceived figure skating as a lonely sport just like gymnastics, hence the team at WTT feel is especially precious.
If properly marketed, the national pride factor also could attract audience outside of die hard figure skating fans.
I agree it was not the most impartial scoring system, however it could potentially challenge youngsters in each nation to look at disciplines that are not the strongest in their home country.
Well done Evan, well done Caroline, well done team USA!! :) :love:
 

Hsuhs

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
I too loved the trophy! Its team spirit and all :clap:

As for the article and Scott Moir's words,

"We may have been second here but we all know Canada is the best skating country in the world," said Moir.

I've stopped reading his and Tessa's interviews a while ago, b/c I really love their skating. And, unlike Scott, I didn't care who placed what this time.

"We weren't exactly forced to participate," said Moir. "But the ISU told us if we didn't come, we wouldn't be allowed to do anything else for the rest of the year, including shows. And, of course, there's always national pride at stake. We came here to win."

Well, I'm glad Scott didn't feel he was forced to participate, since to me he's the best male ice dancer in the world, and it was a treat to get to watch his and Tessa's FD one more time this season.
 

steyn

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Indeed. I thought that was very interesting, too.

However, my first thought was that they must have had continuing negotiations among the financial players -- the ISU, the Japanese Skating Federation, the Japanese television networks, and the corporate sponsors which ultimately paid the bills. Maybe the plan was still on shaky footing -- or in any case, the pricipals were arguing about the details of who pays what to whom -- right up to the last minute.
This makes sense. So for the successful operation of WTT, ISU needs to secure the budget in advance like other competitions. This will also be closely related to the issue of the host country. I would call it a success if WTT is able to be held somewhere outside Japan someday.

Still there is one fundamental problem which bothers me a bit as other guys pointed out. Namely, it is anti-climatic in nature. If WTT gets more and more authority, skaters have to pay more attention to it and they should not be fully exhausted after Worlds. This may affect their performance at Worlds. One possible solution may be they change the order of WTT and Worlds.

If these are all sorted out, who can dislike this event as a figure skating fan? :)
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
As for the article and Scott Moir's words,
"We may have been second here but we all know Canada is the best skating country in the world," said Moir.
I've stopped reading his and Tessa's interviews a while ago, b/c I really love their skating. And, unlike Scott, I didn't care who placed what this time.
I also think Scott and Tessa are wonderful skaters and was happy to see them take some risks this year. This statement, however... um, no. I suppose as team captain he felt compelled, especially with Vancouver Olys coming up, but really, did the Americans do anything unexpected at WTT that knocked Canada off the top of the podium? I don't think so. The results were mostly in line with what the US skaters and the Canadians had accomplished this season.

Canada has great skaters in all the disciplines, but what WTT showed is something that's obvious from the results at previous events, too - that Canada doesn't have the depth the US has. Other than pairs, the Americans have better #2-3 skaters in every discipline - Johnny/Brandon/Jeremy vs. Vaughn and Jeremy Ten, Davis/White and Samuelson/Bates vs. C/P and Weaver/Poje, whoever the 2-3 American ladies are vs. Cynthia Phaneuf and I'm not sure who else. Canada failed to qualify three skaters for next season in all four disciplines.

IIRC, after Worlds, someone from Skate Canada said that not qualifying three men, for instance, was no big deal because the third guy wouldn't have done that well in Vancouver anyway, and Patrick's result was really all that mattered. Even if that's just for PR, what kind of message does that send? And, of course, the third American guy won Worlds ;).
 
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skatingbc

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
I also think Scott and Tessa are wonderful skaters and was happy to see them take some risks this year. This statement, however... um, no. I suppose as team captain he felt compelled, especially with Vancouver Olys coming up, but really, did the Americans do anything unexpected at WTT that knocked Canada off the top of the podium? I don't think so. The results were mostly in line with what the US skaters and the Canadians had accomplished this season.

Canada has great skaters in all the disciplines, but what WTT showed is something that's obvious from the results at previous events, too - that Canada doesn't have the depth the US has. Other than pairs, the Americans have better #2-3 skaters in every discipline - Johnny/Brandon/Jeremy vs. Vaughn and Jeremy Ten, Davis/White and Samuelson/Bates vs. C/P and Weaver/Poje, whoever the 2-3 American ladies are vs. Cynthia Phaneuf and I'm not sure who else. Canada failed to qualify three skaters for next season in all four disciplines.

IIRC, after Worlds, someone from Skate Canada said that not qualifying three men, for instance, was no big deal because the third guy wouldn't have done that well in Vancouver anyway, and Patrick's result was really all that mattered. Even if that's just for PR, what kind of message does that send? And, of course, the third American guy won Worlds ;).

Scot could be talking in general terms. Over all, figure skating is huge in Canada. Almost 25% of our population is involved in figure skating. Skate Canada is the largest national sport governing body in the world. Our Worlds results weren't too shabby either. Canada did win the most medals at Worlds, remember. If you look further than the elite level, I think Canada does have the best figure skating program in the world.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Scot could be talking in general terms. Over all, figure skating is huge in Canada. Almost 25% of our population is involved in figure skating. Skate Canada is the largest national sport governing body in the world. Our Worlds results weren't too shabby either. Canada did win the most medals at Worlds, remember. If you look further than the elite level, I think Canada does have the best figure skating program in the world.
In terms of participation and involvement, you're probably right. I doubt this is what Scott was referring to, but I can give him the benefit of the doubt :cool:. Re Worlds, I realize Canadian skaters won three medals, my point was that past the top person/team in each discipline there's not a lot of depth at the elite level, except maybe pairs. Obviously the top people are very, very good - but that's also true for the US, and maybe if Caroline has been there, or D/W a bit luckier, they too would have had three medals. It's hard to say, and I'm not a huge fan of the American skaters so that is as far as I can take my argument here ;).

I wish 25% of the local population could get involved in skating. Maybe they'd finally build a rink near where I live :).
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
.

Still there is one fundamental problem which bothers me a bit as other guys pointed out. Namely, it is anti-climatic in nature. If WTT gets more and more authority, skaters have to pay more attention to it and they should not be fully exhausted after Worlds. This may affect their performance at Worlds. One possible solution may be they change the order of WTT and Worlds.

If these are all sorted out, who can dislike this event as a figure skating fan? :)
yes, have Worlds after this WTT. The weather alone would be a welcome.

Aside from all its merits, there is the problem of unrepresentative skaters who, unfortunately have no team to be a part of. This would be a disadvantage for them not to squeeze in another comp before Worlds.
 

PolymerBob

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Aside from all its merits, there is the problem of unrepresentative skaters who, unfortunately have no team to be a part of. This would be a disadvantage for them not to squeeze in another comp before Worlds.

Yes, the Germans and South Koreans each won a gold in Los Angeles. Yet they would have done poorly here. That is simply because they don’t have a team. Maybe that is the whole point of the exercise, to encourage these federations to have well rounded teams.

For all our doom and gloom, we Americans really kicked some butt. That’s simply because we have an actual team.

Who wants to see a team event at the Olympics? :biggrin:
 
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