Miss California

[skatingbc]

I saw this clip and have read some articles about Miss California's response to Perez Hilton's question at the Miss USA pageant. Personally, I am proud to live in a country that has legalized same-sex marriage. However, I recognize that many people do not agree with same-sex marriage for whatever reason. I think she maybe should have worded her answer a little differently though. She was in a pageant to be Miss USA, a public figure and therefore maybe should have made her answer a little more politically correct.

Here's the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XMvv...eature=related

[Buzzz]

There was a news piece about the vile language used online to discribe Miss California. Especially by Perez HIlton. It describes as a growing problem, the amount of fowl language and threats issued online. People feel free to say online things they would not say in person. There was a case where a man put videos on youbube with a lot of fowl language and threats against black women and then went on to stalk and kill a woman. I think it is sad she cannot safely express her opinions.

[sillylionlove]

I can't believe that this is even all over the news and morning shows and television in the US. Really...who cares? I could care less about Miss USA, Miss America. The only Miss I care about is Ms. Butterworth because her syrup really rocks!!

[skatingbc]

I can't believe that this is even all over the news and morning shows and television in the US. Really...who cares? I could care less about Miss USA, Miss America. The only Miss I care about is Ms. Butterworth because her syrup really rocks!!

I have always found the US news to be highly entertaining. When the election coverage was on early in 2008, I used to come home from school and put MSNBC on for a few good laughs. Sometimes is really is unbelievable what makes the news. That said, I still think it can make for good discussion!

[Spun Silver]

I think she maybe should have worded her answer a little differently though. She was in a pageant to be Miss USA, a public figure and therefore maybe should have made her answer a little more politically correct.

How could she have been "more politically correct" without pretending to believe something she doesn't, or hiding her real opinion? Is it necessary for every public figure to advocate gay marriage or shut up?

That goes against every possible definition of freedom of speech.

[Ptichka]

For me, the outrage is how she was treated after her statements, not anything else. She stated both a political opinion (it is good for states to decide), and a personal belief (I think a marriage...). Her being vilified for this is a real travesty...

[Johar]

And for her to be called a "stupid bi###" by that Perez Hilton guy.....gee, she states her opinion which they asked. Just because someone doesn't agree with gay marriage doesn't mean they "hate gays."

[antmanb]

For me, the outrage is how she was treated after her statements, not anything else. She stated both a political opinion (it is good for states to decide), and a personal belief (I think a marriage...). Her being vilified for this is a real travesty...

But aren't both sides backing up the principles of freedom of speech?

She gave a political opinion and a personal belief, both of which she has a right to do and both of which might be abhorrant to a number of people (for the record i can't access youtube so i don't actually know what what said).

The people who may have been offended by that have chosen to vilify her using their freedom of speech. You can't let one person or group of people have the rigth and let the commentators on the first act, not have their right to reply. The enormous caveat to this is that if it is only Perez Hilton who has been laying into the woman then i would advocate removing any human rights for him because he is beyond hateful and idiotic!!

Ant

[Ptichka]

Ant -

First of all, I am not advocating making this illegal. However, this has been picked up by many who "should know better".

Also, I would not be supportive of Miss CA had she answered "No, homosexuality is a sin and should be outlawed". Once again, she would have been perfectly within her rights to say this, but should not have been surprised at an overly negative reaction. In fact, the response that she did give might have warranted gay rights activists to say something like "it's a shame that young Americans still do not recognize the need for full equality in our country"; I would not condemn anyone would have responded in this manner. It would have been a measured response to a measured answer. What has happened, however, is truly disproportionate.

For the record, here is what she did say (as per ABC.com) - "I think it's great Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage. And you know what, in my country, in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anybody there, but that's how I was raised and that's how I think it should be, between a man and a woman." If anyone tells me this is extreme, I'll just have to run away and join a convent.

Also, isn't Mr. Hilton in denial? Take this statement of his, given after he took back the remark I can't quote on this forum without giving myself in infraction - "Miss USA should represent everyone. Her answer alienated millions of gay and lesbian Americans, their families and their supporters." Well, wouldn't the opposite answer alienate millions who oppose gay marriage? Or does Miss USA have to only represent the "correct" Americans? The truth is that if the "gay and lesbian Americans, their families and their supporters" outnumbered their opposition, we would've had gay marriage in most states by now. That we do not speaks for itself. (Personally, I couldn't care one way or the other but since it seems that the word "marriage" is the offender here, I think we should just replace the word "marriage" with "union" for all legal documents, and have that for both heterosexual and homosexual couples, leaving "marriage" for the non-state-sponsored ceremonies)

[sillylionlove]

Personally I think that it's almost like she was set up. Perez Hilton is very open about being gay and with him asking that question....it just kind of seems like it was a set up.

[skatingbc]

How could she have been "more politically correct" without pretending to believe something she doesn't, or hiding her real opinion? Is it necessary for every public figure to advocate gay marriage or shut up?

That goes against every possible definition of freedom of speech.

I suppose you're right. Maybe politically correct wasn't what I really was trying to say. I know she has the right to her own opinions and i am glad that everyone has the right to say what they want without fear of retribution. I guess what she actually said is what annoys me. It just annoys me that so many people aren't being allowed to marry the one they love in the Land of the Free. I guess it's not my problem though, because my country allows gay/lesbian marriage.

[antmanb]

Ant -

First of all, I am not advocating making this illegal. However, this has been picked up by many who "should know better".

Also, I would not be supportive of Miss CA had she answered "No, homosexuality is a sin and should be outlawed". Once again, she would have been perfectly within her rights to say this, but should not have been surprised at an overly negative reaction. In fact, the response that she did give might have warranted gay rights activists to say something like "it's a shame that young Americans still do not recognize the need for full equality in our country"; I would not condemn anyone would have responded in this manner. It would have been a measured response to a measured answer. What has happened, however, is truly disproportionate.

For the record, here is what she did say (as per ABC.com) - "I think it's great Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage. And you know what, in my country, in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anybody there, but that's how I was raised and that's how I think it should be, between a man and a woman." If anyone tells me this is extreme, I'll just have to run away and join a convent.

Also, isn't Mr. Hilton in denial? Take this statement of his, given after he took back the remark I can't quote on this forum without giving myself in infraction - "Miss USA should represent everyone. Her answer alienated millions of gay and lesbian Americans, their families and their supporters." Well, wouldn't the opposite answer alienate millions who oppose gay marriage? Or does Miss USA have to only represent the "correct" Americans? The truth is that if the "gay and lesbian Americans, their families and their supporters" outnumbered their opposition, we would've had gay marriage in most states by now. That we do not speaks for itself. (Personally, I couldn't care one way or the other but since it seems that the word "marriage" is the offender here, I think we should just replace the word "marriage" with "union" for all legal documents, and have that for both heterosexual and homosexual couples, leaving "marriage" for the non-state-sponsored ceremonies)

Ha clearly i did my usual jumping in on a debate having not looked at any of the facts!

I agree with you, I don't think it's a particularly extreme statement and it is easy enough to either agree with with her opinion or not she certainly seems to have tried to be as inoffensive as possible while still giving her opinion. I know that gay marriage has been flogged to death in many political forms and for this reason i think people are bored of hearing about it and react to it differently. While personally i'm happy to shrug off what she said I always find it interesting to compare gay issues with race/sex issues and wonder if people would be happy to shrug off her comments if they had been:

" And you know what, in my country, in my family, I think that I believe that black people should not have the same rights as white people. No offense to anybody there, but that's how I was raised and that's how I think it should be, black people having less rights than white."

On that basis that i can be more objective about race issues I don't think I could shrug that statement off.

And I totally agree with you about Perez Hilton - clearly doing the simple maths as you say, you would alienate more people if you were for gay marriage than if you were against, but, that might not be true if you focus on the demographic as to who would actually be interested in a Miss USA or Miss world competition - i'd be willing to bet that an enormous number of interested people would be gay men. I would think it would be interesting to do a study to see how many people who are against gay marriage are also against Miss USA or Miss World competitions too (or at least have no interest). So there might be an element of truth. Are the Miss USA competitions voted on by people or is it simply judged?

Ant

[bekalc]

I'm going to get into this debate quitely and say that I don't really care for those who suggest that those who don't support gay marriage are akin to racists. Don't get me wrong there are some people who are very hateful and disrespectiful to gays, I'll give everyone that. But not everyone who doesn't support gay marriage is like that.

Gay marriage requires an action that may historical religions in the world have taught is wrong. Thus, for many people, their opposition to gay marriage is tied to their religious beliefs.

Now, I do believe that there are principles of basic justice for homosexual couples that need to be addressed...And I think many opponents of gay marriage need to recognize this....

But it feels like with gay marriage is tied to everyone agree that it's perfectly right and fine. And well the thing is not everyone is going to agree, not if they want to remain true to their religion.. (of course different religions have different perspectives). Tolerance isn't agreeing with everyone on everything, tolerance is at times tolerating things even if you don't agree.

[antmanb]

I'm going to get into this debate quitely and say that I don't really care for those who suggest that those who don't support gay marriage are akin to racists. Don't get me wrong there are some people who are very hateful and disrespectiful to gays, I'll give everyone that. But not everyone who doesn't support gay marriage is like that.

Gay marriage requires an action that may historical religions in the world have taught is wrong. Thus, for many people, their opposition to gay marriage is tied to their religious beliefs.

Now, I do believe that there are principles of basic justice for homosexual couples that need to be addressed...And I think many opponents of gay marriage need to recognize this....

But it feels like with gay marriage is tied to everyone agree that it's perfectly right and fine. And well the thing is not everyone is going to agree, not if they want to remain true to their religion.. (of course different religions have different perspectives). Tolerance isn't agreeing with everyone on everything, tolerance is at times tolerating things even if you don't agree.

I do recognise what you've said in your post and I can imagine that that for religious people trying to reconcile some issues with their religion it's going to be difficult, however, it is people's reading and interpretation of their religious texts that often cause more problems as, so far as i'm aware, there are no outright rejection of gay relationships in most religious texts (they're simply not really considered in any great depth), just a small number of phrases and things that are alluded to. There are far more conrcrete writings about things that most would find abhorrant (stoning an adulterous wife to death for example) and that are no longer values that are held despite their religious "sanction".

The only other thing I want to point out is the phrase in bold. For me the argument isn't as specific as gay marriage (i actually care very little about marriage straight or gay!) it's actually about equal rights for human beings full stop. Telling one section of society that they are not allowed to do something that everyone else can because of their sexual orientation is directly comparable to telling a section of society that they are not allowed to something everyone else can because of their skin colour.

Ant

[Tonichelle]

Personally I think that it's almost like she was set up. Perez Hilton is very open about being gay and with him asking that question....it just kind of seems like it was a set up.

I feel the very same way. And I think in that way she did her very best and actually beat him at his own game. She wasn't disrespectful to the question or to him. HE on the other hand...