2009-10 ISU Grand Prix selection guidelines

[merrybari]

I think the situation in men's is quite similar to ladies'.

First, if either Brian or Patrick show up at Skate America, then Lysacek cannot. SA will certainly choose Lysacek from the 1-3 seeds. Then they will have to take one of Verner, Contesti or Kozuka.

They are not required to invite Abbott, but I think they will because he is U.S. Champion.

So the question mark is Weir. Evan and John G. (what is Johnny's middle name, anyway? ) could very well finish 1 and 2 no matter who else is invited (but watch out for Kozuka!)

Johnny has never liked to do Skate America, even when he was U.S. champion, because it came too early in the season. I believe that last year was his first Skate America (he finished second ahead of Evan.) With Skate America later in the season this year, he may want to do it this time.

Johnny is in a good position with respect to the Grand Prix. Although he can't exactly choose his own events, he can make his wishes known. As the most popular U.S. skater worldwide, yet not seeded this year, I think any of the events would be glad to invite him.

Observation re: USFS choice of US skaters.

Evan seems a shoo in (*knock on wood*) for SA, especially if he requests it as he always has in the past.

But then it seems pretty foolish to pit the top US men against each other by also choosing Abbott, and/or Johnny. Puleeze! Johnny may not have had the best end to his season, but still . . .

Then there's Brandon and several others who should be given consideration/exposure for the future.

[Joesitz]

USFSA may not want to put all their eggs in one basket. I know I wouldn't like to see Rachael, Alissa, and Caroline all at Skate America. It would be this season all over again. So Kimmie might be a good "placeholder" for that 3rd spot.

I hope you are right. Putting Rachael and Caroline in SA and pitted against each other for nothing more than a bronze medal while one of the former World podium is on hand with a classy Japanese skater, not to mention the Euros champ who just might get her act together.

As for picking up Caroline, it depends on which Fed has the first draw for NHK or COC if Caroline is selected for SA.

MM. The boys are extremely contested. No one is a sure bet as it is with Mao and YUna. Since Evan and Johnny are arguably our best Men, I think they should be separated into separate GPs. The Japanese also have a problem here with Nobi and Taki, and who knows if Dai is ready. They will try not to pit them against each other for NHK.

Of course, I am presuming once the Host Countries have made their selection, the control is out of their hands and will fall into the whims of the Draw.

[Mathman]

But then it seems pretty foolish to pit the top US men against each other by also choosing Abbott, and/or Johnny.

Since Evan and Johnny are arguably our best Men, I think they should be separated into separate GPs.

This is not so clear to me for the men as it is for the ladies. Skate America could have Lysacek and Contesti as the top two men, whereas some other event might have Joubert and Verner or Chan and Kozuka.

Weir or Abbott might have a better shot at gold or silver at Skate America than anywhere else, even if it means pitting two American contenders against each other.

It might be better for U.S. interests for Lysacek and Weir to go 1-2 at Skate America than for Weir to get fourth at Eric Bompard against Joubert, Verner, and Oda and third at Skate Canada behind Chan and Kozuka.

[Mathman]

PS. Wait a minute. I changed my mind. Forget all that about trying to sneak Weir in somehow by lining up the easiest competition for him.

I will start over.

This is what I wish Rachael Flatt would say to the USFSA. "Please, please, please send me, Caroline Zhang and Alissa Czisny to Skate America so I can whup up on their scrawny behinds. And throw in Yu-na Kim, Carolina Kostner, Laura Lepisto, Sarah Meier and Yukari Nakano, too -- not that any of them will dare to come once they find out I am going to be there."

Then I want Caroline to say to Rachael: "You want ot skate against me? ...You want to skate against ME?... I'm the only Caroline Zhang here, so you must be talking about me. Bring it, chump!"

[feraina]

I think Caroline and Rachael versus Miki at SA would be great. Miki is former world champion and current world bronze medalist, and yet she got beaten by both at WTT. That may well happen again, and it would give the two American girls a lot of momentum heading into the Olympics. Getting a silver wouldn't hurt too much in terms of GPF chances, and even a bronze is not a death knoll (as Caroline showed two season ago). I agree with Mathman that the American ladies should get as much competition experience against the top ladies as possible, and learn to deal with the energy of the crowd and expectations of the media, as that will only intensify if they continue their upward trajectories. Their main disadvantage at this point versus previous successful young teens (Michelle Kwan, Tara Lipinski, Sarah Hughes, Sasha Cohen) is relative lack of top-level international experience. A gold medal at SA would be a phenomenal lift of confidence, if one of them should win it. So I'm all for sending both Rachael and Caroline to SA.

I must say, although Caroline & Rachael are not as spectacular in terms of athleticism as Mao & Yu-na at a similar age, the two Americans are more consistent. Yu-na & Mao both rarely skate both programs clean more than once in a whole season. All this talk about how the technical demands of COP make skaters more prone to falls and errors, and now we have two young Americans who pull out these wonderful 7-triple programs left and right. If they can gain more maturity and power in their skating, they will be really competitive with the best.

[cleopatra20042004]

Please clarify for me regarding paragraph 2. Does the top 24 scores just includes the 2008/2009 season only.
Does it include the Personal Best/Season best scores in the Overall, PersonalBest Season Best Short Program/ Personal Best/Season best Free skate.

The season's best scores are the scores for one ISU competition this season, not adding the best short with the best long of the season. Personal bests arent used.

[Joesitz]

[QUOTE=Mathman;392958]This is not so clear to me for the men as it is for the ladies. Skate America could have Lysacek and Contesti as the top two men, whereas some other event might have Joubert and Verner or Chan and Kozuka.[/QU0TE]

The USFS has much control in who it picks for its 3-man-team and who is left of the pickings. It's not like the ISU is telling them who to pick. The USFS, however, must accept one of the Worlds podium and one of the 4-6 results.
So, it should pick Evan which will keep out Brian and Patrick.. Whoever else they pick may get more fans to travel to Lake Placid but Abbott may rise to the occasion towards the end of the season. Third spot should go to promising skater for experience. Keegan?

Johnny wll be happy with COR as will Joubert both of whom will talk to TT.

What strategy there is for this, is just that the USFS has some control for SA but none in other GPs.

I think Caroline and Rachael versus Miki at SA would be great. Miki is former world champion and current world bronze medalist, and yet she got beaten by both at WTT. That may well happen again, and it would give the two American girls a lot of momentum heading into the Olympics. Getting a silver wouldn't hurt too much in terms of GPF chances, and even a bronze is not a death knoll (as Caroline showed two season ago). I agree with Mathman that the American ladies should get as much competition experience against the top ladies as possible, and learn to deal with the energy of the crowd and expectations of the media, as that will only intensify if they continue their upward trajectories. Their main disadvantage at this point versus previous successful young teens (Michelle Kwan, Tara Lipinski, Sarah Hughes, Sasha Cohen) is relative lack of top-level international experience. A gold medal at SA would be a phenomenal lift of confidence, if one of them should win it. So I'm all for sending both Rachael and Caroline to SA

.
I respect your rationale, but I would like to see Rachael and Caroline do well in a separate GP leasing up to SA and SC.

One has to remember that SA is the 5th event in this competition. Unless they are also scheduled to SC, we will not know much as how well others are doing.
btw, I think it will be YuNa at SA which is closest to Orser.

I

[chuckm]

One has to remember that SA is the 5th event in this competition. Unless they are also scheduled to SC, we will not know much as how well others are doing.
btw, I think it will be YuNa at SA which is closest to Orser.

I

I doubt it would be YuNa at SA. It is FAR more likely that she will do SC, which is even closer to Orser, and I don't think she's going to want to do two events back to back.

Miki has done SA every year since 2006. She trains with Morozov in Hackensack, NJ, which is even closer to Lake Placid than Toronto is.

[fairly4]

Thank you Cleopatra for the information.

[Joesitz]

I doubt it would be YuNa at SA. It is FAR more likely that she will do SC, which is even closer to Orser, and I don't think she's going to want to do two events back to back.

Miki has done SA every year since 2006. She trains with Morozov in Hackensack, NJ, which is even closer to Lake Placid than Toronto is.

YuNa will not do SC unless the Can Fed is no longer interested in Joannie, and both of them are Worlds podium skaters. Canada is in position to choose.

Where these 6 top automatic draws are sent is a mystery. YuNa could do Paris without much competition as could several US ladies. I really don't know why some fans are demanding that the USFS select their top skaters for this one event and SA is just that - one of six events. Why is it so important?? They do not realize that the Finals is most important.

[Mathman]

^ I try to put myself in the position of the athletes.

Would you rather make it to the GP finals by taking on the best in your own country and the world?

Or would you rather sneak in by having your federation arrange the easiest possible schedule for you?

[dorispulaski]

The season's best scores are the scores for one ISU competition this season, not adding the best short with the best long of the season. Personal bests arent used.

The biggest shock is that Pechalat & Bourzat have a higher season's best (from 5th place at worlds) than Delobel & Schoenfelder by some 6 points

[Joesitz]

^ I try to put myself in the position of the athletes.

Would you rather make it to the GP finals by taking on the best in your own country and the world?

Or would you rather sneak in by having your federation arrange the easiest possible schedule for you?

As a coach or manager, I would want to ensure that my skater makes the Final like other Federations, and stop the nonsense of winning SA as the ultimate in the GPs. It isn't! The Final is!

Maybe you're thinking of watching it on TV.

[Sylvia]

For those wondering... I have heard that the Grand Prix selection meeting is scheduled this year for May 28-30 in Vancouver.

[Mathman]

As a coach or manager, I would want to ensure that my skater makes the Final like other Federations...

OK, I give in.

So now let’s plan the optimal strategy for getting Caroline Zhang into the Grand Prix finals. (Rachael doesn’t need our help because, as number five in the world, she can never meet more than one seeded skater no matter which events she does.)

Here is a mock draw:

France: Kim, Flatt, Nakano
China: Rochette, Asada, Meier
Russia: Kim, Lepisto, Kostner
Japan: Ando, Asada, Leonova
America: Ando, Flatt, Czisny, Gedevanishvili
Canada: Rochette, Lepisto, Kostner

Which two events would give Caroline the best shot at making the finals?