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Thread: 2009-10 ISU Grand Prix selection guidelines

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I know how much you care for Sasha, but we are talking about the gateway to the Olys. Sasha can get to Vancouver by just getting the ok from the USFS without doing SA. Of course she has to make an impression at Nats unless she wins it. I think it would be a mistake if she does a GP event with the blessing of an exception by the ISU because she is under tremendous pressure as it is. If she loses the GP, she will have to win the Nats - repeat WIN the Nats whereas if she skips SA, she will not have to win the Nats but just make a fantastic showing that she is competitive.
    Let me make COMPLETELY clear to you that what I just said was based on what I thought would STRATEGICALLY work for USFS (given their relationship with NBC, SA organizers, etc.). As far as my personal feelings are concerned, I'd rather other skaters on the Olympic team, anyway.

    But you're right on the last part.

  2. #137
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    Correct me if I am remembering this wrong, but back in 1994 when Brian Boitano and other past Olympians wanted to re-instate, I got the feeling that USFS was lukewarm about the whole idea. It was the USOC that pushed them into it, citing the collapse of amateurism in the Olympics and subsequent changes of eleigibility rules (give Jim Thorpe his medals back! )

    It is not at all clear to me how USFS will respond. I think it is significant that Sasha has not said that she has had discussions with USFS, only that she has told them that she would "accept an invitation if it were offered."

    USFS may have moved on from the Kwan-Cohen era, even if we haven't.
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-08-2009 at 11:23 PM.

  3. #138
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    Michelle Kwan in senior-level competition 1992 - 2006
    Sasha Cohen in senior-level competition 2000 - 2010?

    "Kwan/Cohen era"? Why does that myth continue to get propagated? Michelle is more than 4 years older and was in senior competition 8 years prior to Sasha. They aren't of the "same era." Sasha just overlaps the end of Michelle's era up until this one. Sasha coming back isn't the same as Michelle coming back who is more than 4 years her senior. Michelle quitting doesn't mean Sasha should quit. Why do people keep saying this stuff?

  4. #139
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    ^ I will change what I wrote:

    New version: Maybe the USFSA has moved on from the Cohen era.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    I think the way to do it is to go ahead and offer Cohen that third spot, but to make doubly sure that the alternate (whomever it is) is ready for the event in the likely case that Cohen withdraws.
    Agreed!

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    I don't know the Lake Placid area, or even where it was located until I looked at a map. I was actually considering going there before I knew where it was, since I'd be on the Eastern seaboard at event time- that is, if it was within commute of NYC. Apparently it's not even close, so I scrapped that idea promptly.
    RD - I skiid at Whiteface Mountain many times and many moons ago, and Lake Placid is where one looks to stay over for a weekend. From Manhattan, and on a chartered bus it took 6 plus hours each way. I think driving might get you there in 5 hours but not sure. On a cold snowy night it is not the happiest of driving.

    Maybe one can fly to Albany and pick up a rental to drive the rest of the way.

    I think the USFS is penny wise and pound foolish. Maybe the Skating Club of NY could have worked it into Madison Square Garden, although the Garden is a huge barn. Maybe Baltimore would work.

    Maybe, maybe, maybe.

  7. #142
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    For all you think Sasha will only get one,
    Check out the Minneapolis-St.Paul paper where David Raith a USFSA executive states Sasha will be in SA < because of first one chosen and, personally he thinks Cup of Russia, (not correct name) Trophy De Bompard and Cup of China will also invite and /or at least looking into her.
    so it will be hard for other us skaters to get two or one, depending on draw.
    yes, i personnally don't like sasha because or her actions and the fact the usfsa and older skaters handed everything when she was younger. She and the usfsa feels she is entitles to this. sorry-but that is what i think and feel.

  8. #143
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    ^ Here's the same report from the San Francisco papers.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...SPFK17HEN8.DTL

    Cohen fans, mark your calendars. It's a "logical assumption" the Olympic silver medalist will be at Skate America in November, U.S. Figure Skating executive director David Raith said.

    Cohen announced this week she's returning to competitive skating after a three-year layoff in hopes of making the Vancouver Games. Grand Prix assignments will be made May 30.

    "She's not automatic. But I think when her name shows up on the list, she'll be one of the first chosen," Raith said. Skate America, which is Nov. 13-15 in Lake Placid, N.Y., has the first rights to Cohen.
    That sounds pretty official to me. (Particle man gets the last laugh undeed! )

    David Raith is the executive director of USFS. He would not be falling all over himself about Sasha without first consulting with the other officers of the organization. Skate America sounds like a done deal.

    As for the part about about all the other federations being eager to get in line to sign her up once USFS submits her name, this may be Raith's attempt to influence the ISU about the interpretation of the "through no fault of her own" rule. Hey, is it Sasha's fault that SOI couldn't do without her?

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Anyway, if I were Shep Goldberg (Caroline's agent) I would be lobbying the USFSA as hard as I could to get Caroline's face on U.S. television as much as possible between now and the Olympics. It might mean a Wheaties box for her!
    You mean something like this?


  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by PolymerBob View Post
    You mean something like this?



    This has inspired me to create my own Caroline Wheaties Box when I go home and get my laptop...perhaps we should have a GoldenSkate Caroline Wheaties Box Contest?
    Last edited by evangeline; 05-09-2009 at 02:43 PM.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by PolymerBob View Post
    You mean something like this?
    Hilarious!

    But, unfortunately I don't think Caroline's agent and her team in general have any intention to increase the level of publicity. She said several times that her agent's role is to help her keep a low profile, to minimize publicity and its interference with her training.

    Personally, I think that's a mistake. I think with Sasha back in the picture (and seemingly assured of a ticket to Vancouver), and the even-matchedness of the younger skaters, getting that other berth will come down to who can stir the greatest amount of excitement in the public's imagination. Alissa probably won last season because many people thought that the public would be excited about having a "ladies' champion" instead of a "girls' champion", something that her team tirelessly promoted up until the night before the LP.

    Well, GP results might matter, too. But despite the rule changes, USFSA will likely pick the team largely according to National's, and National's judging has shown great willingness to massage the results accordingly to however they like.
    Last edited by feraina; 05-09-2009 at 02:50 PM.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I don't know why Caroline fans think she will have a tougher time at Skate America than at some other GP event.
    Well, myself as a Caroline fan think that it's a great shame that Sasha will take that third spot probably away from Caroline. SA is a great opportunity to get more exposure in the US, and I actually think that Olympic selection will largely come down to a "popularity contest." In Caroline's case, anyway, she has consistently had a harder time at National's than subsequent ISU championships. Her biggest hurdle always seems to be getting onto that Worlds team (and next year, Olympics team).

    Plus, as MM has noted, SA will probably be the best field for Caroline to skate against. Forced to face two seeds at every GP, she will probably be best off against Miki and Rachael. And at SA she's unlikely to face the strong unseeded skaters Yukari or Carolina.

    I'm okay with Sasha's returning, but I'm really bummed that Caroline will miss out on SA because of that. And now her dream of making the Olympic team is receding farther into the horizon, and the fact that she wasn't sent to the World's to help earn that third spot is more galling than ever.

    Well, here's some sincere wishing that she will have her own "Salome moment" and come out winning big on the GP next season, no matter where she's sent (just not NHK, yikes!), and make it impossible for her to be ignored, even if she will have no TV exposure until National's.

  13. #148
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    I think the USFS will choose Rachael as their 4-6 spot Her name comes up first and I think other Feds will pass her by for whatever reasons. So SA will have YuNa, Yukari and Rachael. If Sasha gets in this scenario, how well do you think she will do? If you substitute Miki for YuNa, I do not see much difference, add on Mirai and Kimmie, Caroline or Ashley and what do you have at SA for Sasha to get a second SP. If she does get 3rd place, I believe she would want Paris which she always enjoyed and which will probably be the silver medal will be the easiest to win.

    For Russia, Leonova is a very consistent skater with lots of triples for COR plus Joannie and Mao possibly.

    The USFS could be impressed, if if if if..........

    Bring on the results of the Draw and let's talk more.

  14. #149
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    Uh, Joe, TEB is the first GP, so Sasha finishing 3rd at SA wouldn't factor into that.

  15. #150
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    I have to say, as much as I love Sasha and know US skating needs her for the attention she'll attract, I think she's the underdog here. Sasha already referred to herself as a grandma in the skating world when she was 21, compared with people like Kimmie and Mao. It's a young person's sport. I'd give Caroline the edge. Sasha is talking (or at least is quoted as talking) as if her only competition is on the international level but I think it would be a big mistake for her to underestimate her national rivals. She's aging, but they're maturing.

    Caroline is very fortunate that Sasha is going to be the one to bear an Olympic mountain of pressure on her shoulders. Meanwhile Caroline can keep training under the radar. She's young, uninjured, and has at least one more Olympics in her after this. The competition will force her to step up her game and there's no telling what will triumph - innocence or experience.

    I do think it's very cynical and wrong-headed to set it up in advance as a case of judging bias if Sasha wins, though. Have a little more faith in the judges, and your skater.

    Me, I'm rooting for the brilliant, erratic underdog.

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