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Thread: 2009-10 ISU Grand Prix selection guidelines

  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I don't recall a case in ladies, but in men's, Rudy Galindo, the 1996 US Men's Champion & World bronze medallist, was not invited to Skate America in fall 1996. Todd Eldredge, the 1996 US Men's Silver Medallist and World Champion, was invited instead. This was one reason that Rudy said he went pro, since it was such a ringing non-endorsement by USFS.
    USFS's loss was COI's gain. The next year Rudy came up with YMCA -- and the rest is history!

    Actually, I guess it is possible that this could happen in men's this year. Skate America will certainly take world champion Lysacek. I guess they don't strictly have to invite Abbott.

    By the way, the new rule that says for the Olympic team they can take into account other factors besides U.S. nationals placement could help Lysacek. Conceivably he could bomb at nationals and finish fourth. But they could still send him, as world champion.

    I think that's the unwritten rule of Olympic team selection -- if you've got the world champion, send him!

  2. #167
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    We are talking about different things. MK later became a household name(while Tara faded into oblivion) has nothing to do with Mr. Goldberg's PR work. It's Michelle's persistent pursuit of the Olympic dream earned her the reputation. But for the 98 Olympics alone, not only did Tara beat Michelle won the Olympic gold, but she also won the public opinion. At the time, Michelle was criticized for shying away from the public. Michelle didn't live in the village. She chose to stay in a hotel with her parents, and she didn't interact with other athletes. All these things were reported on the newspaper and I don't think people like this seemingly aloof personality. On the other hand, Tara was young, energetic, full of competitive spirit. Her engaging personality was a much better suit than Michelle for the golden girl image.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    How did Mr. Goldberg misfire in promoting Michelle Kwan in 1998? She didn't win the Olympic gold medal, but she quickly became a household name and a millionaire through endorsements. More so than the Olympic champion, Tara.

  3. #168
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    ^ Oh, I don't agree at all. A few reporters groused that Michelle did not hang out in the press room at the Olympic village like the bubbly Tara did, but the public loved Michelle to pieces before, during and after the games.

  4. #169
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    but the public loved Tara and I can only see they loved her more not less after the news coming out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ Oh, I don't agree at all. A few reporters groused that Michelle did not hang out in the press room at the Olympic village like the bubbly Tara did, but the public loved Michelle to pieces before, during and after the games.

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    Competition results alone, Rachael is slightly better than (or on par with) Caroline. But on engaging the general public, she is far ahead of Caroline. Rachael has a strong team behind her and they did a fantastic job to shape her image in the past year. She became a spokesperson for "Reading Is Fundamental". She also participated in the parade for Skate America (or US nationals?). She is A-grade student and attended academic conference. Rachael also secured an endorsement deal from MAC and launched her official website right in time for the nationals and for the incoming Olympic season. So I'd say Rachael well positioned to be the top American lady.
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Rachael was the top US lady at both her GP events (4th at SA and 2nd at CoR), while Caroline was 5th and 3rd at her GP events. Rachael is the National silver medalist, and finished top 5 at Worlds. Rachael is also in the "A" envelope, while Caroline is in "B". So I don't see that Caroline is the "top American".

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANW
    but the public loved Tara and I can only see they loved her more not less after the news coming out.
    In my opinion, throughout Michelle's career she forged and sustained -- with the help of her family and advisors -- a public image of class and grace. Never a publicity seeker, she handled her fame with honesty and character.

    There is a reason why it is Michelle Kwan who was chosen by two different Presidents to represent the U.S. State Department in goodwill missions around the globe.

    To tell the truth, this is why I am not eager for Michelle to return to competitive skating. In my opinion, she has grown -- in potential -- from a popular athlete to a person of substance. Look forward, not back!

  7. #172
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    "the public" loved both Michelle and Tara just as they loved both Sarah and Michelle...

    skating fans - or rather skater fans - and the media pushed ugly rivalries around more than anything else... trying to make trouble where there is/was none.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    The one time they went head-to-head at 4CC, Caroline topped Rachel (4th to 5th). But Rachel has had the overall better results. I guess Czisny gets in "A" as the national champ but honestly, I don't feel she deserves it 100%.
    PolymerBob said Caroline was the top American lady in her *last four* ISU events:
    TEB: she (3) beat Bebe (5) and Emily (9)
    4CC: she (4) beat Rachael (7) and Alissa (9)
    JW: she (2) beat Ashley (3) and Katrina (5)
    WTT: she (3) beat Rachael (4)

    So yes, I think factually PolymerBob got it right.

    I didn't want to say anything, but I have trouble understanding this. They hired an agent, at considerable expense, to keep Caroline OUT of the news media? Does Shep stand outside Caroline's front door and fight off reporters with Chinese nunchaku?
    I don't know what nunchaku, but yeah, basically what MM said. Instead of having to respond to requests for interviews, sponsorships, public appearances, etc., she can always tell them "Please direct all queries to my agent", and the query falls into a black hole that is Goldberg. That is almost certainly what's happening now. I suggested to Caroline that maybe she can use her growing publicity to be sponsored by a private school, just so that she can go to a school that'd be more accommodating to her competition/training schedule (since they can't afford it otherwise, and her public school is very inflexible), and she said no, they're trying to minimize publicity as much as possible.

    *sigh* I don't know. I guess they think that the strategy worked for Michelle (though you do wonder about '98), and somehow it goes with traditional Chinese values, too, to hunker down and work hard, and avoid all unnecessary publicity. But the competition Caroline faces now isn't anything like what Michelle faced at 15. She can't really afford to let her performance speak for itself if she wants to go to Vancouver. :(

    Alissa's team was always very outspoken about how US skating needs a mature woman to grab the public's attention. Rachael's team has given several interviews about how she's really focusing on her presentation/musicality, and how she balances school with skating. And until very recently, when Mirai was sidelined by injury, and her relationship with Charlene Wong seemed to sour a little, Charlene gave many public interviews. How many interviews has Caroline's coach given? Zero. And since Goldberg became their agent, they've been very wary of Caroline giving interviews, especially before big competition like National's. I remember last year ('08), there was like an interview ban altogether.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    Alissa's team was always very outspoken about how US skating needs a mature woman to grab the public's attention. Rachael's team has given several interviews about how she's really focusing on her presentation/musicality, and how she balances school with skating. And until very recently, when Mirai was sidelined by injury, and her relationship with Charlene Wong seemed to sour a little, Charlene gave many public interviews. How many interviews has Caroline's coach given? Zero. And since Goldberg became their agent, they've been very wary of Caroline giving interviews, especially before big competition like National's. I remember last year ('08), there was like an interview ban altogether.
    I think the interview ban was only prior to the actual events (SP/LP) at 08 US Nationals by Zhang's group. Prior to that, there seemed to quite alot of press including the fluff bit with Zhang and Kwan that was shown on tv IIRC. Shep did a good job of promoting Zhang for quite some time before 08 Nationals. I think they have taken a more subtle approach in the last season, which may be a good thing for Zhang. IIRC, Zhang and Nagasu were the two in the limelight last season with expectations heaped on their young shoulders. Meissner was dealing with her own issues. OTOH....

    Flatt's group on the other, may be playing catchup. Prior to this year, there was really very little info about Flatt available....she skates and she is a good student. Still the same info at this point, but maybe a bit more detail available.

    Press or no press. The kids still have to get on the ice and skate!

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The "seeded" skaters are the ones that finished in the top 6 at worlds. They are "seeded" into the grand prix by the requirement that each of 1-3 gets 2 events (in other words, they are spread out so they can't face each other until the finals), and 4-6 each get two events.

    The only way you can get "unseeded" is if you withdraw from the Grand Prix altother. Then there is a formula for which skaters are elevated to the "seeded" position in the place of the skater who withdrew.

    All other skaters are "invited." There are various rules about which categories of invited skaters must get invited to two events, which must get invited to at least one, and which may get invited to at least one.
    OK, thanks for the explanation.

  11. #176
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    I think Rachel Flatt, if she stays healthy, will become the US #1. I can see Caroline Zhang rising up to give her a challenge, however. The only other one I see in the immediate picture is Mirai Nagasu (after what went down, she's a FIGHTER)...everyone else, changes with the weather. Yes, that includes Czisny and Wagner

  12. #177
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    The interests on Rachael Flatt has grown tremendously this past season. Like I said before, her team carefully crafted her image and promoted her little by little with every small success she achieved. She won Jr. World, became a spokesperson. She did great in GP series, announced the endorsement deal and launched her website. Just like her skating, Rachael's team built solid ground for the incoming Olympic season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel View Post

    Flatt's group on the other, may be playing catchup. Prior to this year, there was really very little info about Flatt available....she skates and she is a good student. Still the same info at this point, but maybe a bit more detail available.

    Press or no press. The kids still have to get on the ice and skate!

  13. #178
    Tanguera feraina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel View Post
    I think the interview ban was only prior to the actual events (SP/LP) at 08 US Nationals by Zhang's group. Prior to that, there seemed to quite alot of press including the fluff bit with Zhang and Kwan that was shown on tv IIRC.
    Well, Zhang's team also banned interviews leading up to SA, her first senior competition:
    http://www.ocregister.com/sports/zha...690-vancouver-

    It really sounded like they tried their best to avoid publicity, and I believe that Goldberg was hired after SA to deal with the publicity that they didn't want.

    Shep did a good job of promoting Zhang for quite some time before 08 Nationals. I think they have taken a more subtle approach in the last season, which may be a good thing for Zhang.
    I still think that Shep didn't try to promote Zhang, and really quite to the contrary, he tried to fend it off for her. But in the vacuum of any successful senior US lady, a lot of publicity was heaped on Zhang after her amazing JGP season and the following year's successful senior debut. I think the "subtler approach" you see this season is a consequence of less publicity looking for Zhang rather than vice versa.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    Instead of having to respond to requests for interviews, sponsorships, public appearances, etc., she can always tell them "Please direct all queries to my agent", and the query falls into a black hole that is Goldberg. That is almost certainly what's happening now.
    I understand interviews and public appearances. But Goldberg is actually turning down endorsement deals?

  15. #180
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    I remember quite a bit of media coverage on Caroline (quite a bit by FS standards) during her first season as a senior, which she entered into being hailed as the Second Coming after her dominance as a junior. There was also that TV spot on her with Michelle. Granted, there has been less publicity for Caroline since then - perhaps this is because she hasn't become quite as dominant as people expected her to be. In contrast, Rachael has received relatively less attention, and yet is seen as a shoo-in for an Olympic berth. So, the national judges are more predisposed towards Rachael even though she flies under the radar a little bit more than Caroline.

    It's also quite interesting that Caroline gets coverage from the foreign media (Japanese, for example), whereas the other up and comers get nil.

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