2009-10 ISU Grand Prix selection guidelines | Page 16 | Golden Skate

2009-10 ISU Grand Prix selection guidelines

suosuo

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
It is a tradition for JSF to send skaters having the highest placement in the past World Championship to NHK. So, Miki will definitely appear in NHK. And I don't think that JSF will also send Mao to NHK. I hope Mao could attend COC and SC. But that's just my thoughts.
 

sorcerer

Final Flight
Joined
May 1, 2007
I don't see why it's so wrong to let the world champ choose their spots (for the most part) that's just a nice perk.
Nothing wrong in letting the world champ choose their spots, I agree with you. :)
But I think it should then be written so in the Announcements.

What I don't think it's good for the sport, is things being done unseen, unofficial, underground, etc.

BTW I only brought up NHK '07 because you mentioned Orser's interview referring to it and it seemed to contain misunderstandings. Bek I think you may be right in that the JSF did get the first pick in '07 and '08 because it had the Champ in respective years. As you say, only host feds doing so would be unfair. It should be the champion skater himself/herself to have the say if any.

But as a fact as I view, it wasn't the champs' choices for NHK. Nor was there any dislikes from the skaters.

So I come to the same opinion of mine that things should be written in the rules.
Then Mao or Miki or whoever might have had their say without political worries, no?
 
Last edited:

sorcerer

Final Flight
Joined
May 1, 2007
Then who tells Joannie she can't have Skate Canada?
She'll simply get to know by time, but I can't help imagining Orser showing kindness to say so through media, in that hypothetical situation.

ETA:
PB's post made me realize that if what Sylvia has told us is the truth underground, then Yuna will get SC close to where she trains and SC's pick for Joannie has to yield. So Joannie gets 2 out of TEB, Rostelecom, COC, and SA, if suosuo has thought correctly about NHK.
 
Last edited:

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
She'll simply get to know by time, but I can't help imagining Orser showing kindness to say so through media, in that hypothetical situation.

ETA:
PB's post made me realize that if what Sylvia has told us is the truth underground, then Yuna will get SC close to where she trains and SC's pick for Joannie has to yield. So Joannie gets 2 out of TEB, Rostelecom, COC, and SA, if suosuo has thought correctly about NHK.

No. HOST picks come first, before the seed picks. Skate Canada will pick Joannie in the host pick round, which means SC will pick only from the 4th-6th seeds (Asada, Flatt or Lepisto).

NHK can pick both Ando (3rd) and Asada (4th) in the host pick round.
 

sorcerer

Final Flight
Joined
May 1, 2007
No. HOST picks come first,
Yes, that has been my understanding of reality.
But I read Sylvia's information as something weighed prior to host picks.

Because if her information is only about what goes after the host picks then the priviledge of being a champ isn't as effective as she informs us.
France, Russia, and China has nothing to lose in picking the champ, so when the host pick is over, there's not much left for champ's preference.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
All I can say at this point is that for the first time, we are realizing that there is more to the make up of the Grand Prix than we knew before. Much thanks to Sylvia and Chuckum.

The GP series reminds me somewhat of the PGA series where golfers select the events they will be in, and there are many of them.
 

cosmos

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Yes, that has been my understanding of reality.
But I read Sylvia's information as something weighed prior to host picks.

Because if her information is only about what goes after the host picks then the priviledge of being a champ isn't as effective as she informs us.
France, Russia, and China has nothing to lose in picking the champ, so when the host pick is over, there's not much left for champ's preference.

As I understand it, host pick means pick of its own skaters. So, Canada can pick Joannie as its host pick but Russia, France, China can't pick YuNa as their host pick.

BTW, YuNa hoped that one of the GP events would be in North America. So, if champ's preference is accepted, she will skate in SA.
 
Last edited:

PolymerBob

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
For what it's worth, I've heard unofficially that the current World Champions can request which GP events they would like and are accommodated if at all possible.

So Sylvia is essentially correct. Kim's request for Skate Canada will be accommodated if at all possible. The problem is that kicking Joannie out of Canada is just not possible.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Yu-Na is aware that Skate Canada is not a possibility, since Joannie will certainly get a host pick. She would state her choices of the remaining 5 events, and I'm sure the federations would accommodate those choices.
 

sorcerer

Final Flight
Joined
May 1, 2007
As I understand it, host pick means pick of its own skaters.
In any case, "Host picks" system is not even written in the "Announcements".
If it is the established and unchanged rule, it should be published openly, IMO.

Here is a page in USFSA that Mathman taught me 2 years ago.
http://www.usfigureskating.org/Story.asp?id=25740&type=news

There it says

1. Host Country Skaters/Couples
The host country of each event (e.g. the U.S. for Skate America, China for Cup of China) may select a maximum of three skaters/couples in each discipline for their own event. These can be seeded or non-seeded skaters, but there is a maximum of two seeded skaters per discipline per event.

2. Seeded Skaters/Couples
The top six skaters/couples in each discipline from the most recent ISU World Championships are entitled to skate in two events and may skate in three. Seeded skaters are selected in two separate draws, one for skaters seeded 1-3 and the other for skaters seeded 4-6.

3. ...
4. ...
(The above aren't in the Announcements.)

So it doesn't define that the host picks are limited to skaters/couples of their own country.
However, the title can be read both ways.

Whatever the reality is, it is, and I can't say it isn't, but I would say, make it open, it doesn't worth to be a mystery. :)
 

momjudi

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
A lot of time has been spent discussing potential grand prix assignments for the ladies, what about the men, dance and pairs?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
In any case, "Host picks" system is not even written in the "Announcements"
That is the problem. None of this is written down in the announcement. The part about separate draws for 1-3 and 4-6 is not written down in the current announcement, either. This leaves us guessing, but not 100% sure, that it will be the same this year as it has always been in the past..

What is in the announcemnt is Rule 2.2 h).

There it says:

In addition to [all the above rules], each host ISU Member may select additional skaters/couples in accordance with selection procedures established by the ISU Figure Skating Event Coordination Group.

?

sorcerer said:
2. Seeded Skaters/Couples

The top six skaters/couples in each discipline from the most recent ISU World Championships are entitled to skate in two events and may skate in three.

The part in bold has changed. (See section 2.2 i) of the announcement. :) ) At one time the top skaters were allowed three events, with only two of them counting in the points system. Then that was changed so that singles skaters and dancers could only do two, but selected pairs teams could do three (the reason for treating pairs differently was that there were not enuigh good pairs teams to go around.) Now the rule is the same for pairs -- only two events.

sorcerer said:
So it doesn't define that the host picks are limited to skaters/couples of their own country.
I am certain, however, that it is intended to mean "from their own country." Otherwise, the host picks would be the same as the draw. There would be no reason to have "host picks" and then "more host picks" if they meant that you could pick anyone. :cool:

sorcerer said:
Whatever the reality is, it is, and I can't say it isn't, but I would say, make it open, it doesn't worth to be a mystery. :)

:agree: Organizations like the ISU, national governments, etc., love secrecy. Maybe they are right. If the people were allowed to know anything, the organization would be up the creek. :)
 
Last edited:

sorcerer

Final Flight
Joined
May 1, 2007
I am certain, however, that it is intended to mean "from their own country." Otherwise, the host picks would be the same as the draw.
Hey that's very true indeed. ...Apologies for consuming much bytes in this thread.

So if "champ's preference" does exist, though I don't know how it is brought to the 6-party-talks (maybe via Lausanne?), Yuna's SA is practically determined, then.
I think this will the first time in these 3 years that such preference would get its effect in the ladies field, since Miki and Mao weren't aware of such priviledge, I believe.
How was it with Kimmie in '06 ?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
A lot of time has been spent discussing potential grand prix assignments for the ladies, what about the men, dance and pairs?

:clap: Dance is the most ineteresting. Maybe the Skate America assignments will give us some insight into how USFS goes about making their selections.

They get first dibs at Belbin and Agosto from the 1-3 category and also at Davis and White from 4-6. Davis and White are also the U.S. champions, but Belbin and Agosto are generally regarded as the stongest U.S. hopes for an Olympic medal.

Many posters on this board do not like to see U.S. skaters going head to head in the Grand Prix. But a first and a second at Skate America would not hurt the chances of both of these teams making the final.

If USFS tries to "help" Davis and White by sending them somewhere else, then they would have to skate against either Virtue and Moir or Domnina and Shabalin instead. I don't see how that does Davis and White any favors or increases their chances of making the finals.

What about the third team? Should we just go right down the line with Samuerlson and Bates?

Personally, I would like to see Virue and Moir from 1-3, Khokhlova and Novitski from 4-6, and U.S. entries Hubbell and Hubbell, Chock and Zeuerlein, and Shibutani and Shibutani. :clap: (Does that make me unnpatriotic? ;) )
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
So if "champ's preference" does exist, though I don't know how it is brought to the 6-party-talks (maybe via Lausanne?), Yuna's SA is practically determined, then.

Here is my opinion (always reserving the right to be wrong, of course. :) ) about this privilege.

I think that all the skaters, through their federations, have the opportunity to make their wishes known about where they would like to skate. The world champions get extra consideration compared to the others, because, well, they are the world champions.

Sometimes it works out that most of the top skaters are happy with their assignments, sometimes skaters are dissapointed. I think there is also a certain amount of "horse trading" that goes on among federations after the draw. If you take my top-ranked ice dance team, I'll invite your up-and-coming guy in the men's field.

What would really be neat is if all of these meetings were openly reported so we could follow the order of the draw and all the subsequent deals and negotiations. That will never happen, but it would be cool if it did. :yes:

sorcerer said:
I think this will the first time in these 3 years that such preference would get its effect in the ladies field, since Miki and Mao wasn't aware of such privilege, I believe.

How was it with Kimmie in '06.

That was an interesting question, so I looked it up. :)

If it is really true that "everyone wants to go to Paris," and, if not, Skate America, then the last three ladies' champions did pretty well.

2006. Kimmie Meissner got Skate America and Trophee Eric Bompard.

2007. Miki Ando got Skate America and NHK.

2008. Mao Asada got Eric Bompard and NHK.

However, sometimes it might be the other way around. Does the top skater want a certain event, or does that event want the top skater?
 
Last edited:

sorcerer

Final Flight
Joined
May 1, 2007
...If it is really true that "everyone wants to go to Paris," and, if not, Skate America...
(Momjudi, the following is about all disciplines.)

My guess:
If the skater/couple has his/her/their programs ready by the time of the GP assignments, then he/she/they would want an early game such as TEB(Paris).
If the program is expected to delay, then he/she/they would want an late game like SC this year.
I think the latter must be larger in number, so "?" mark to "everyone wants Paris".

BTW
1. Mao has always been wanted by TEB after her sensational debut there, probably more than the other way around.
2. I've heard somewhere that Miki wants(wanted?) to skate in SC once in her career, the only GP missing in her experience. But this she won't get this year, I suppose.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Mao may be wanted by TEB, and YuNa maybe wanted by SA (convenience), but the Order of the Drawer is the important deciding factor in this game.

If the Podium at Last Worlds has first draw:

1st Grouping: YuNa, Joannie, Miki will draw 2 places, I believe. What order I do not know. but I believe Joannie will choose SC and Miki will choose NHK. I believe YuNa will want SA becase of Orser. The seond choice can be sticky because the first of the drawers may select an event that the other two want.

2nd Grouping: The 4-6 will probably know which of the top 3 are already placed in six events, and try their best to avoid the most competition. I think the USFS will choose Rachael, and eliminate Mao from SA, and Laura will want CoR but so much depends on theOrder of the Draw

The rest of the Field will just continue filling slots in the Event Listings accoridng to theOrder of Draw. (Sasha, of course has a spot for SA and Rachael is automatically in SA.)

Since Figure Skating tends to be secretive wherever possible, we will not know the results of who drew first, second and third in the Order of Draw

Once we know who's where in the final Event Listing, we will have much more to say. Remember 26 or better is very secure for the Final. 24 may make some ties, so points earned are also to be considered.

And remember, Emanuel Sandhu won the Final one year as an Alternate, so it's not over till it's over.
 

Sylvia

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Rachael Flatt and Alissa Czisny are guaranteed two GP events because they finished in the top 12 at Worlds 2009.

Three other US ladies have more than one guarantee (WR=top 24 ISU World Rank; SB=top 24 Season's Best list; JW=Junior Worlds medalist; JG=JGPF medalist):

Caroline Zhang: WR=8, SB=7, JW=2
Ashley Wagner: WR=14, SB=16, JW=3
Becky Bereswill: SB=23, JG=1

Zhang and Wagner will almost certainly get two GP events. Bereswill has one more year of Junior eligibility, so it depends on whether she wants to move up to the GP.

Four US ladies have just one guarantee:
Mirai Nagasu: WR=21
Kimmie Meissner: WR=23
Alexe Gilles: JG=3
Angela Maxwell: SB=21

Of these, Gilles and Maxwell may remain in the JGP. Nagasu and Meissner may get one or two GP events.
Along with the 2009 World Junior pair bronze medalists Castelli/Shnapir (who have aged out), I've heard that Becky Bereswill, Alexe Gilles, JGP Final men's silver medalist Armin Mahbanoozadeh, and the dance teams of Chock/Zuerlein and Hubbell/Hubbell (all of whom are ISU Junior age-eligible in 2009-10) will be the USA "rookie" skaters in the GP draw next weekend and are the ones guaranteed at least 1 assignment each. (Alexander Johnson, who has aged out, is #32 on the Season Best scores list and therefore also eligible to be selected.)
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Sylvia - Not sure I understand. If C/Z and H/H are still skating Juniors, they are still eligible for 1 Senior GP. Is that correct?

This Flip Flop between Seniors and Juniors is weird. I would even call it unsportsman like, but then when am I ever correct? :cool:

Can you please tell me what the difference is in Juniors between the ISU and the USFS?

BTW, Anxiously awaiting the Assignments next weekend. :bow:
 
Top