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Thread: 2009-10 ISU Grand Prix selection guidelines

  1. #181
    Tanguera feraina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andalusia View Post
    It's also quite interesting that Caroline gets coverage from the foreign media (Japanese, for example), whereas the other up and comers get nil.
    Except Mirai, who's a very popular in Japan. Maybe it has to do with Caroline's Asian heritage.

    Yeah, I do remember the TV spot with Michelle aired at National's. But I tend to think that it was more an attempt of NBC's to try to raise viewership by including Michelle somehow in their programming (and this angle of being a mentor to a younger skater was perhaps as good as any).

    I think what really hurt Caroline's senior debut, despite doing really well in her first GP season, was the downgrade rules implemented just the summer before, which hit especially hard at SA, the first competition. She was sagged with 5 downgrades, a huge number (how many people even attempt that many triples?!), and that reputation of being an under-rotater stuck with her long after, even though she had good GP results that first year. Few people remember she got a bronze there, everyone remembers that she got 5 downgrades. The way DG calls are implemented, it is strongly prone to prior biases (tech panel only reviews jumps where they suspect UR in real time, and most jumps look under-rotated in slow-motion, so there is a strong confirmation bias). So this has really hurt her. I think she's only very, very slowly now digging herself out of that reputation.

    I understand interviews and public appearances. But Goldberg is actually turning down endorsement deals?
    Well, I don't know. All I know is that she thought being sponsored by a private school was a bad idea because of publicity. I can only imagine that they're refusing other deals, too.

  2. #182
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    I think Caroline's family and advisors are handling the situation just right. The focus should be on the achievement, not on blowing one's own horn (or hiring someone to blow it for you.)

    Likewise I don't think that Rachael lent her name to the "Reading is Fundamental" program in order to get her own name in the newspapers. It's the other way around. Because Rachael's achievements have brought her name to the fore, now she has an opportunity to contribute to a worthy cause.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    Well, Zhang's team also banned interviews leading up to SA, her first senior competition:
    http://www.ocregister.com/sports/zha...690-vancouver-

    It really sounded like they tried their best to avoid publicity, and I believe that Goldberg was hired after SA to deal with the publicity that they didn't want.



    I still think that Shep didn't try to promote Zhang, and really quite to the contrary, he tried to fend it off for her. But in the vacuum of any successful senior US lady, a lot of publicity was heaped on Zhang after her amazing JGP season and the following year's successful senior debut. I think the "subtler approach" you see this season is a consequence of less publicity looking for Zhang rather than vice versa.
    It is easy to say no to interviews. And perhaps the Zhang camp has done this more recently, but IIRC, Zakrajsek says no to all interviews for his skaters....Abbott, Mroz, Bradley, Flatt, GIlles....about a month prior competitions. Zakrajsek has stated this in interviews a number of times. Let the skaters focus on the task at hand. And, I remember reading some blogs/articles from Worlds, the same held true at practices where he is polite but ushers his skaters away from the media. Official press conferences...ie after SP, etc are the norm for all skaters at these events.
    Last edited by Nigel; 05-10-2009 at 12:45 PM.

  4. #184
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    Can we get back to the selection guidelines? This thread has gotten off topic.......

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    I wonder if Meissner is eligible for a GP and whether she would be considered for SA. I'm willing to bet that it will wind up being Flatt/Czisny/Cohen, with either Nagasu or Zhang in line as an alternate (unless they get two others). But Kimmie should at least get some international experience- it would be a shame if she's relegated to the nationals qualifying comps.
    Meissner is guaranteed one Grand Prix event because she is in the top 24 ISU World Standings list (same with Nagasu).

    And third, even though Cohen may indeed get that SA assignment, that's no guarantee that she will show up. Of course, given that she is in good health she would, but based on her competitive history I would not get discouraged about Zhang (or whomever) losing a spot. If Cohen withdraws, someone will get it back. (I think?? Unless the other US skaters can get two other GPs.)
    USFS usually has alternates selected for Skate America in case one of their skaters withdraws for whatever reason.

  6. #186
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    Yes, the US has alternates selected, but Zhang would be unlikely to be one of them. If the US doesn't pick Caroline, she will probably get invitations to two other GP events based on her excellent record from last season.

    Alternates for Skate America are more likely to be either skaters who got just one GP invitation (to one of the earlier events), or no GP invitation at all.

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    Before the Sasha Cohen news I was pretty much convinced Ashley Wagner would get 2 GP events (after all she's among the top 4 in the US). I didn't think Ashley would have been considered for SA anyway, but does Sasha taking up a spot there (and maybe another GP spot) diminish Ashley's chances at a second GP event?
    Last year I think 6 US Ladies got 2 GP events; Kimmie, Mirai, Bebe, Ashley, Caroline and Katrina. Alissa wound up with two as well after a good performance at Skate Canada. Emily got one.
    So this year; Alissa and Rachael will definitely get two; Caroline very likely as well, next up is Ashley. The skaters left who probably hope for 2 events: Kimmie and Mirai. Skater definitely getting one: Alexe, Becky and I think Angela. How many berths does the US have? 'Cause throwing Sasha in the mix might change things; definitely if she gets two.
    Many have argued it's very unlikely Sasha would get two events (because of the ISU not being applicable to her situation). But for example could the France Federation give her TEB as host pick?

  8. #188
    Tanguera feraina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trewyn View Post
    So this year; Alissa and Rachael will definitely get two; Caroline very likely as well, next up is Ashley. The skaters left who probably hope for 2 events: Kimmie and Mirai. Skater definitely getting one: Alexe, Becky and I think Angela. How many berths does the US have? 'Cause throwing Sasha in the mix might change things; definitely if she gets two.
    Many have argued it's very unlikely Sasha would get two events (because of the ISU not being applicable to her situation). But for example could the France Federation give her TEB as host pick?
    I don't think Sasha should be able to get two events according to ISU's rule that previous years' absence has to be due to factor's not under the skater's control, though the quote from Raith seems to suggest she might anyway.

    I think Caroline and Ashley will both get two, if only based on last year's GP results. How often does it happen that a GP medalist doesn't get two GP's the next year? I think Mirai also might get two, given she still has some buzz around her as the '08 US champion, and she's very popular in Japan. I suspect one of the three juniors will somehow land 2 -- every year, there seems to be a surprise U.S. entrant coming up from juniors who gets two when only guaranteed one. Kimmie, I don't know, she's a recent world champion, but her last season... maybe one?

    Anyway, the maximum is 18 (3 at each competition), and last season there were 16 US entries altogether. The scenario I described, including only SA for Sasha, would also come to a a total of 16.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Meissner is guaranteed one Grand Prix event because she is in the top 24 ISU World Standings list (same with Nagasu).
    Cool.

    I wonder if it'll be SA or another event.

    USFS usually has alternates selected for Skate America in case one of their skaters withdraws for whatever reason.
    I figured as much.

  10. #190
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    Considering that Johnny did not make the World team or podium at Nationals, would he still be considered for more then one GP slot?

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by momjudi View Post
    Considering that Johnny did not make the World team or podium at Nationals, would he still be considered for more then one GP slot?
    I'd be really shocked if he doesn't get two! He medaled at GPF last season after all!

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Yes, the US has alternates selected, but Zhang would be unlikely to be one of them. If the US doesn't pick Caroline, she will probably get invitations to two other GP events based on her excellent record from last season.

    Alternates for Skate America are more likely to be either skaters who got just one GP invitation (to one of the earlier events), or no GP invitation at all.
    I haven't looked at the ISU Listing in some time but I believe the US skaters are quite up front. No?

    Since there are alway's withdrawals at GPs. (My prior matrices are full of crossed offs, and new names entered). What are the possibilities of the American Ladies who can add 1 GP for a total of two)?

    Also how long can a Fed hold on to a TBA?

  13. #193
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    ^ As far as I can tell at the moment, only Flatt and Czisny are guarateed two.

    Skaters who are guaranteed one and eligible for a second are Zhang, Wagner, Nagasu, Meissner, Bereswill and Gilles.

    Others who are eligible for at least one are : Maxwell, Musademba, Bebe Liang, Hacker (retired), Dobbs and Secundy.

  14. #194
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    Here are the stats for the US ladies:

    GUARANTEED TWO GP EVENTS (top 12 in 2009 Worlds):
    Rachael FLATT: GP Seed; 7th ISU Rank; 6th Season Best List
    Alissa CZISNY: 22nd ISU Rank; 17th SB list

    GUARANTEED ONE GP EVENT (Top 24 on ISU Rank List AND/OR Top 24 on SB List AND/OR JW medalist AND/OR JGP medalist)
    Caroline ZHANG: 8th ISU Rank; 7th SB List, JW silver medalist (probably will get two GPs)
    Ashley WAGNER: 14th ISU Rank; 16th SB List, JW bronze medalist (probably will get two GPs)
    Becky BERESWILL: 23rd SB List; JGPF Champion (could remain in JGP)
    Mirai NAGASU: 21st ISU Rank
    Kimmie MEISSNER: 23rd ISU Rank
    Alexe GILLES: JGPF bronze medalist (could remain in JGP)
    Angela MAXWELL: 21st SB List (probably will remain in JGP)

    NO GP Guarantees:
    Beatrisa LIANG - eligible for GP invitations (30 on SB list)
    Kristine MUSADEMBA (probably will remain in JGP)
    Amanda DOBBS (reportedly skating PAIRS)
    Melissa BULANHAGUI eligible for GP invitations (55 on SB list)
    Emily HUGHES ineligible for GP invitations (82 on SB list)

  15. #195
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    Excellent list, chuckm. Thank you.

    But where does Sasha fall on the list?

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