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Thread: 2009-10 ISU Grand Prix selection guidelines

  1. #301
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    It is a tradition for JSF to send skaters having the highest placement in the past World Championship to NHK. So, Miki will definitely appear in NHK. And I don't think that JSF will also send Mao to NHK. I hope Mao could attend COC and SC. But that's just my thoughts.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I don't see why it's so wrong to let the world champ choose their spots (for the most part) that's just a nice perk.
    Nothing wrong in letting the world champ choose their spots, I agree with you.
    But I think it should then be written so in the Announcements.

    What I don't think it's good for the sport, is things being done unseen, unofficial, underground, etc.

    BTW I only brought up NHK '07 because you mentioned Orser's interview referring to it and it seemed to contain misunderstandings. Bek I think you may be right in that the JSF did get the first pick in '07 and '08 because it had the Champ in respective years. As you say, only host feds doing so would be unfair. It should be the champion skater himself/herself to have the say if any.

    But as a fact as I view, it wasn't the champs' choices for NHK. Nor was there any dislikes from the skaters.

    So I come to the same opinion of mine that things should be written in the rules.
    Then Mao or Miki or whoever might have had their say without political worries, no?
    Last edited by sorcerer; 05-16-2009 at 11:34 PM.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorcerer View Post
    Nothing wrong in letting the world champ choose their spots, I agree with you.
    But I think it should then be written so in the Announcements.
    Then who tells Joannie she can't have Skate Canada?

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by PolymerBob View Post
    Then who tells Joannie she can't have Skate Canada?
    She'll simply get to know by time, but I can't help imagining Orser showing kindness to say so through media, in that hypothetical situation.

    ETA:
    PB's post made me realize that if what Sylvia has told us is the truth underground, then Yuna will get SC close to where she trains and SC's pick for Joannie has to yield. So Joannie gets 2 out of TEB, Rostelecom, COC, and SA, if suosuo has thought correctly about NHK.
    Last edited by sorcerer; 05-17-2009 at 02:17 AM.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorcerer View Post
    She'll simply get to know by time, but I can't help imagining Orser showing kindness to say so through media, in that hypothetical situation.

    ETA:
    PB's post made me realize that if what Sylvia has told us is the truth underground, then Yuna will get SC close to where she trains and SC's pick for Joannie has to yield. So Joannie gets 2 out of TEB, Rostelecom, COC, and SA, if suosuo has thought correctly about NHK.
    No. HOST picks come first, before the seed picks. Skate Canada will pick Joannie in the host pick round, which means SC will pick only from the 4th-6th seeds (Asada, Flatt or Lepisto).

    NHK can pick both Ando (3rd) and Asada (4th) in the host pick round.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    No. HOST picks come first,
    Yes, that has been my understanding of reality.
    But I read Sylvia's information as something weighed prior to host picks.

    Because if her information is only about what goes after the host picks then the priviledge of being a champ isn't as effective as she informs us.
    France, Russia, and China has nothing to lose in picking the champ, so when the host pick is over, there's not much left for champ's preference.

  7. #307
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    All I can say at this point is that for the first time, we are realizing that there is more to the make up of the Grand Prix than we knew before. Much thanks to Sylvia and Chuckum.

    The GP series reminds me somewhat of the PGA series where golfers select the events they will be in, and there are many of them.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorcerer View Post
    Yes, that has been my understanding of reality.
    But I read Sylvia's information as something weighed prior to host picks.

    Because if her information is only about what goes after the host picks then the priviledge of being a champ isn't as effective as she informs us.
    France, Russia, and China has nothing to lose in picking the champ, so when the host pick is over, there's not much left for champ's preference.
    As I understand it, host pick means pick of its own skaters. So, Canada can pick Joannie as its host pick but Russia, France, China can't pick YuNa as their host pick.

    BTW, YuNa hoped that one of the GP events would be in North America. So, if champ's preference is accepted, she will skate in SA.
    Last edited by cosmos; 05-17-2009 at 08:32 AM.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    For what it's worth, I've heard unofficially that the current World Champions can request which GP events they would like and are accommodated if at all possible.
    So Sylvia is essentially correct. Kim's request for Skate Canada will be accommodated if at all possible. The problem is that kicking Joannie out of Canada is just not possible.

  10. #310
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    Yu-Na is aware that Skate Canada is not a possibility, since Joannie will certainly get a host pick. She would state her choices of the remaining 5 events, and I'm sure the federations would accommodate those choices.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmos View Post
    As I understand it, host pick means pick of its own skaters.
    In any case, "Host picks" system is not even written in the "Announcements".
    If it is the established and unchanged rule, it should be published openly, IMO.

    Here is a page in USFSA that Mathman taught me 2 years ago.
    http://www.usfigureskating.org/Story...5740&type=news

    There it says

    1. Host Country Skaters/Couples
    The host country of each event (e.g. the U.S. for Skate America, China for Cup of China) may select a maximum of three skaters/couples in each discipline for their own event. These can be seeded or non-seeded skaters, but there is a maximum of two seeded skaters per discipline per event.

    2. Seeded Skaters/Couples
    The top six skaters/couples in each discipline from the most recent ISU World Championships are entitled to skate in two events and may skate in three. Seeded skaters are selected in two separate draws, one for skaters seeded 1-3 and the other for skaters seeded 4-6.

    3. ...
    4. ...
    (The above aren't in the Announcements.)

    So it doesn't define that the host picks are limited to skaters/couples of their own country.
    However, the title can be read both ways.

    Whatever the reality is, it is, and I can't say it isn't, but I would say, make it open, it doesn't worth to be a mystery.

  12. #312
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    A lot of time has been spent discussing potential grand prix assignments for the ladies, what about the men, dance and pairs?

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorcerer View Post
    In any case, "Host picks" system is not even written in the "Announcements"
    That is the problem. None of this is written down in the announcement. The part about separate draws for 1-3 and 4-6 is not written down in the current announcement, either. This leaves us guessing, but not 100% sure, that it will be the same this year as it has always been in the past..

    What is in the announcemnt is Rule 2.2 h).

    There it says:

    In addition to [all the above rules], each host ISU Member may select additional skaters/couples in accordance with selection procedures established by the ISU Figure Skating Event Coordination Group.
    ?

    Quote Originally Posted by sorcerer

    2. Seeded Skaters/Couples

    The top six skaters/couples in each discipline from the most recent ISU World Championships are entitled to skate in two events and may skate in three.
    The part in bold has changed. (See section 2.2 i) of the announcement. ) At one time the top skaters were allowed three events, with only two of them counting in the points system. Then that was changed so that singles skaters and dancers could only do two, but selected pairs teams could do three (the reason for treating pairs differently was that there were not enuigh good pairs teams to go around.) Now the rule is the same for pairs -- only two events.

    Quote Originally Posted by sorcerer
    So it doesn't define that the host picks are limited to skaters/couples of their own country.
    I am certain, however, that it is intended to mean "from their own country." Otherwise, the host picks would be the same as the draw. There would be no reason to have "host picks" and then "more host picks" if they meant that you could pick anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by sorcerer
    Whatever the reality is, it is, and I can't say it isn't, but I would say, make it open, it doesn't worth to be a mystery.
    Organizations like the ISU, national governments, etc., love secrecy. Maybe they are right. If the people were allowed to know anything, the organization would be up the creek.
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-17-2009 at 12:49 PM.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I am certain, however, that it is intended to mean "from their own country." Otherwise, the host picks would be the same as the draw.
    Hey that's very true indeed. ...Apologies for consuming much bytes in this thread.

    So if "champ's preference" does exist, though I don't know how it is brought to the 6-party-talks (maybe via Lausanne?), Yuna's SA is practically determined, then.
    I think this will the first time in these 3 years that such preference would get its effect in the ladies field, since Miki and Mao weren't aware of such priviledge, I believe.
    How was it with Kimmie in '06 ?
    Last edited by sorcerer; 05-17-2009 at 01:16 PM.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by momjudi View Post
    A lot of time has been spent discussing potential grand prix assignments for the ladies, what about the men, dance and pairs?
    Dance is the most ineteresting. Maybe the Skate America assignments will give us some insight into how USFS goes about making their selections.

    They get first dibs at Belbin and Agosto from the 1-3 category and also at Davis and White from 4-6. Davis and White are also the U.S. champions, but Belbin and Agosto are generally regarded as the stongest U.S. hopes for an Olympic medal.

    Many posters on this board do not like to see U.S. skaters going head to head in the Grand Prix. But a first and a second at Skate America would not hurt the chances of both of these teams making the final.

    If USFS tries to "help" Davis and White by sending them somewhere else, then they would have to skate against either Virtue and Moir or Domnina and Shabalin instead. I don't see how that does Davis and White any favors or increases their chances of making the finals.

    What about the third team? Should we just go right down the line with Samuerlson and Bates?

    Personally, I would like to see Virue and Moir from 1-3, Khokhlova and Novitski from 4-6, and U.S. entries Hubbell and Hubbell, Chock and Zeuerlein, and Shibutani and Shibutani. (Does that make me unnpatriotic? )
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-17-2009 at 01:51 PM.

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