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Thread: 2009-10 ISU Grand Prix selection guidelines

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alicja View Post
    I really hope that Caroline and Rachael get assignments that give them a good shot at making the GPF. Rachael was so close this past season. I bet, hadn't she been chosen for SA, she would have made it. I also hope Caroline has a better start than she had last season. I'd love to see both at the GPF.

    I agree with your sentiment - but part of me thinks a third GP event gets to be a lot for such young girls. And personally, i don't see why all the fuss about GPF. It feels like a somewhat hollow title - similar to 4CC title.
    In an Olympic year, Nationals is more important that GPF and 4CC put together.
    It is important to be ready, well rested and in peak condition for Nationals this year. Depending on the locations - and amount of travel - one of our young skaters could be a bit ragged after 3 GP events.
    Last edited by janetfan; 05-28-2009 at 10:18 AM.

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I agree with your sentiment - but part of me thinks a third GP event gets to be a lot for such young girls. And personally, i don't see why all the fuss about GPF. It feels like a somewhat hollow title - similar to 4CC title.
    In an Olympic year, Nationals is more important that GPF and 4CC put together.
    It is important to be ready, well rested and in peak condition for Nationals this year. Depending on the locations - and amount of travel - one of our young skaters could be a bit ragged after 3 GP events.

    Yeah, I agree with your concern that it might be too much for them. On the other hand doing well on the GP circuit and making it to the GPF doesn't hurt with the new rules on choosing the olympic team..

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    That is my question, Joe. Why do you think it will be easier for Caroline to make the top two in, say, Cup of China or Cup of Russia, than in Skate America?

    All those skaters that you mentioned -- Kim, Nakano, Kostner, Meier -- not to mention Asada -- are just as likely to show up at other events as at Skate America.
    Indeed they will, but why should we put our two best in one event which could be a loser to at least one of them when we can avoid it? We already have Sasha who, if she doesn't get a second GP, could be a spoiler (in points) for others. SA, imo, is on equal footing with other GPs, but has a slight amount of avoidance strategy for the USFS which it doesn't have in other GP events. Those skaters I listed, with the exception of Kostner, are very competitive. Is Caroline all that competitive? I just can't see a clean sweep for the American Ladies at SA. Just hoping one gets a second place, which is very much a wait and see.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alicja View Post
    I really hope that Caroline and Rachael get assignments that give them a good shot at making the GPF. Rachael was so close this past season. I bet, hadn't she been chosen for SA, she would have made it. I also hope Caroline has a better start than she had last season. I'd love to see both at the GPF.
    Me too, that is why I want to separate them.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alicja View Post
    Yeah, I agree with your concern that it might be too much for them. On the other hand doing well on the GP circuit and making it to the GPF doesn't hurt with the new rules on choosing the olympic team..

    Yes, that is also something to consider. Don't Caroline and Rachael have a few brownie points going for them already after their Intl performances from last season?
    I think Mirai and Ashley or even Kimmie need a boost more from GP's this season than Caroline or Rachael. My only concern was about the amount of travel - depending on the locations of their respective events. Some say if Caroline and Rachael "tear up" GP's this season it will get them a spot on Natl team. I don't belive that will matter at all if they have a poor Natls.
    Sasha has really changed our thinking about next season. Maybe she won't even make it to Natls - or will not skate so well if she does.
    I keep overlooking Alissa - who may need a strong GP season more than any of our girls to have a chance to make it to Vancouver.

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Yes, that is also something to consider. Don't Caroline and Rachael have a few brownie points going for them already after their Intl performances from last season?
    I think Mirai and Ashley or even Kimmie need a boost more from GP's this season than Caroline or Rachael. My only concern was about the amount of travel - depending on the locations of their respective events. Some say if Caroline and Rachael "tear up" GP's this season it will get them a spot on Natl team. I don't belive that will matter at all if they have a poor Natls.
    Sasha has really changed our thinking about next season. Maybe she won't even make it to Natls - or will not skate so well if she does.
    I keep overlooking Alissa - who may need a strong GP season more than any of our girls to have a chance to make it to Vancouver.
    I don't understand much of what the USFSA does. They keep surprising me, year after year. Lately they seem to try very hard to find a new face for US ladies skating who draws attention to the sport. But they don't have much success.
    I'm still puzzled how Ashley beat Rachael and Caroline in the FS at nationals. I like her, but there were quite a few small errors in that skate. If I were Rachael or Caroline I certainly wouldn't count on having those brownie points. I do think that they need the international results just as much as the other girls. They might have an advantage if everyone skates poorly at nationals or girls with zero international senior experience stand on the podium. Not that I think that will happen...

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I agree with your sentiment - but part of me thinks a third GP event gets to be a lot for such young girls.
    Rachael turns 17 in July, so I would hardly consider that she is "such [a] young girl". Caroline did the GPF in the 2007-2008 season at 14, so I don't think doing it again at 16 should do her any harm.


    And personally, i don't see why all the fuss about GPF. It feels like a somewhat hollow title - similar to 4CC title. In an Olympic year, Nationals is more important that GPF and 4CC put together.
    Since the GPF is the #2 criteria for selection to the Olympic team, it has significance for these two ladies. If both of them and Sasha are on the podium at Nationals, having made the GPF could mean the difference between making the Olympic team and not making it.

    It is important to be ready, well rested and in peak condition for Nationals this year. Depending on the locations - and amount of travel - one of our young skaters could be a bit ragged after 3 GP events.
    Rachael did Nationals and 4CC back-to-back and she certainly wasn't ragged at Worlds. Same for Caroline, who did Nationals, 4CC and JW.

    It is Sasha who would suffer if she had to do 3 GP events before Nationals, since she has been away from competition for more than 3 years and will have had an extremely short training schedule between the switch from show skating to competition skating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Since the GPF is the #2 criteria for selection to the Olympic team, it has significance for these two ladies. If both of them and Sasha are on the podium at Nationals, having made the GPF could mean the difference between making the Olympic team and not making it.

    Rachael did Nationals and 4CC back-to-back and she certainly wasn't ragged at Worlds. Same for Caroline, who did Nationals, 4CC and JW.
    .
    Good points. I thought GP "season" as opposed to only "GPF" was a criteria. So if only being in GPF matters then of course I think it will be helpful should any of our girls make it to Final.

    I disagree - Rachael was a little ragged at Worlds - she made an uncharacteristic mistake in her SP and then - if I have it right, canned her LP and went with her LP from previous year coz she wasn't comfortable. Maybe not ragged - but something, right?

    Caroline didn't have to travel all that far for Natls or 4CC since she is already on the West coast. And yes, Caroline did travel a distance to Jr Worlds where she competed even though she got sick. Certainly that could have been a coincidence - but as a guy who used to travel for a living I know it can take a toll on you at times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    ...So if only being in GPF matters...
    In fact, I think it is worse than that. As I read the selection criteria, I think the only thing that matters is medalling in the Grand Prix final against strong competion.

    We can already see that USFS is not impressed with Rachael's fifth place finish at Worlds and Caroline's fourth place at Four Continents. If that counted for anything, USFS would not be wetting its pants over Sasha's return.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    In fact, I think it is worse than that. As I read the selection criteria, I think the only thing that matters is medalling in the Grand Prix final against strong competion.

    We can already see that USFS is not impressed with Rachael's fifth place finish at Worlds and Caroline's fourth place at Four Continents. If that counted for anything, USFS would not be wetting its pants over Sasha's return.
    If true, I think that's really sad. Not that I expected it to be much better, but still

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    In fact, I think it is worse than that. As I read the selection criteria, I think the only thing that matters is medalling in the Grand Prix final against strong competion.

    We can already see that USFS is not impressed with Rachael's fifth place finish at Worlds and Caroline's fourth place at Four Continents. If that counted for anything, USFS would not be wetting its pants over Sasha's return.

    Thanks for clarifying that mm. A little to much "luck of the drawl" for that to feel very viable - or fair imo.

    You have pointed out to me several times that WTT means nothing. I get it - but then am left wondering why Alissa, as National Champion was replaced on Team USA by Caroline? Coincidence, or is US Skating finaly realizing which girl is the stronger skater in International competitions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Thanks for clarifying that mm. A little to much "luck of the drawl" for that to feel very viable - or fair imo.

    You have pointed out to me several times that WTT means nothing. I get it - but then am left wondering why Alissa, as National Champion was replaced on Team USA by Caroline? Coincidence, or is US Skating finaly realizing which girl is the stronger skater in International competitions?
    I think the WTT guidelines encouraged countries to send their top ranked skaters (by ISU ranking), and Caroline is the top-ranked US skater (or, at least, used to be before WTT).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    We can already see that USFS is not impressed with Rachael's fifth place finish at Worlds and Caroline's fourth place at Four Continents. If that counted for anything, USFS would not be wetting its pants over Sasha's return.
    In what way has USFS wet their pants over Sasha's return?

    All I see is that she announced her intention to compete and they ran a news story on their website, same as they run stories about any other off-season news regarding the current elite skaters. (Mostly coaching changes lately.)

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    They're inviting her to Skate America, based on no competitive appearances for almost 4 years.

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    So? And suppose they invite Gregory & Petukhov to Skate America also. Would that constitute pants wetting as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I disagree - Rachael was a little ragged at Worlds - she made an uncharacteristic mistake in her SP and then - if I have it right, canned her LP and went with her LP from previous year coz she wasn't comfortable. Maybe not ragged - but something, right?
    Rachael had a wonky landing on her 3F in the SP, but still finished 7th. The decision to return to the old FS was made after the new program hadn't scored well in her GP events. Rachael did very well in her Worlds FS and moved up two places to finish 5th. She would have received an even higher score had her final spin not been counted because she repeated one of the spin positions---but that was her coach's and choreographer's error.

    That was an excellent result for her first appearance at Worlds. She may have been more than a little bit nervous, but she showed her competitive spirit.
    Last edited by chuckm; 05-28-2009 at 01:58 PM.

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