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Thread: 2009-10 ISU Grand Prix selection guidelines

  1. #106
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Good rationale, enlight, but it's all in the points, and if Evan, Brian and Patrick each get 30 points, All the other Americans, French, and Canadian Men will probably not be included in the last six, although I am a big fan of Ponsero, I think it will be Kozuka, Brezina and Nobunari if not Weir. All getting minimum of 26 points.
    I would be surprised if Lysacek, Joubert and Chan all nd up with 30 points.

    Last year Lysacek got 3rd and 2nd in his two events and didn't make the finals. Joubert got 4th in France and 1st in Russia. In the finals he withdrew after the short.

    Chan did get 30 points, but then finished dead last in the finals.

    I think it's all up for grabs -- especially since the skaters will be looking past the Grand Prix to the Olympics, trying to hit their stride at the right time of year.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I would be surprised if Lysacek, Joubert and Chan all nd up with 30 points.
    It could happen.

    Last year Lysacek got 3rd and 2nd in his two events and didn't make the finals. Joubert got 4th in France and 1st in Russia. In the finals he withdrew after the short.

    Chan did get 30 points, but then finished dead last in the finals.
    That was all last year. All three were favorites going into the Worlds and all did well. Maybe 28 points for one.

    I think it's all up for grabs -- especially since the skaters will be looking past the Grand Prix to the Olympics, trying to hit their stride at the right time of year.
    Yagotit! I'm just doing some early possibilities until Push comes to Shove.

    There are skaters that:

    got on a roll: Evan
    got hit with insecurity: Brian
    got too much hype causing pressure: Patrick

    Weir - too many fans get in the way
    Brezina - too inexperienced
    Kozuka - not holding his roll
    Oda - too moody

    Those were just my negatives for the time being. Awaiting to see if Dai is ok and if so, it's another ball game.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    It could happen.
    And it could not. In fact it is more likely that it will not - it would mean all three winning both of their GPs, has that ever even happened in the history of the GP that the top three qualifiers in the men qualified with full points each?


    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    All three were favorites going into the Worlds and all did well.
    I disagree Joubert was certainly the favourtie going in. Chan was certainly a front runner but still in experienced. Lysacek was everything but a favourite. He wasn't at the previous worlds through injury, he didn't have a great GP series not making the final, he was third at nationals (where many were calling for him to be dumped off the team in favour of Weir) i think for Lysacek an amazing results would have been to medal. To get the gold was unbelievable.


    Ant

  4. #109
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I disagree Joubert was certainly the favourtie going in. Chan was certainly a front runner but still in experienced. Lysacek was everything but a favourite. He wasn't at the previous worlds through injury, he didn't have a great GP series not making the final, he was third at nationals (where many were calling for him to be dumped off the team in favour of Weir) i think for Lysacek an amazing results would have been to medal. To get the gold was unbelievable.
    I think Chan and Joubert were sort of co-favorites, Joubert by virtue of his SP scores and Euros win and Chan because he'd done so well everywhere but the PGF.

    I don't think Lysacek was that much of a long shot by any means. He'd already had two medals at Worlds and had been steadily improving throughout the season. Joubert named him as the most dangerous guy in the field prior to Worlds (to which some responded: Brian is dissing Patrick Chan! No, Brian can clearly see the future ). Plushenko said Evan would end up on the podium. I think I wrote here that I saw him as a major contender, as did several other posters. So obviously some people thought he'd do well - maybe not top of the podium, but not ruling that out.

  5. #110
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    And it could not. In fact it is more likely that it will not - it would mean all three winning both of their GPs, has that ever even happened in the history of the GP that the top three qualifiers in the men qualified with full points each?
    .
    Ant
    And thanks for your opinions, but they are not in my speculation. We'll see how the Draw for these GPs turn out.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    I think Chan and Joubert were sort of co-favorites, Joubert by virtue of his SP scores and Euros win and Chan because he'd done so well everywhere but the PGF.

    I don't think Lysacek was that much of a long shot by any means. He'd already had two medals at Worlds and had been steadily improving throughout the season. Joubert named him as the most dangerous guy in the field prior to Worlds (to which some responded: Brian is dissing Patrick Chan! No, Brian can clearly see the future ). Plushenko said Evan would end up on the podium. I think I wrote here that I saw him as a major contender, as did several other posters. So obviously some people thought he'd do well - maybe not top of the podium, but not ruling that out.
    Interesting post. It all seems like Weir is in the dog house.

  7. #112
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    fyi,
    with sasha back in, it might just keep alexe gilles,angela maxwell, becky bereswill to one if sasha gets two and kimmie and mirai to one or maybe none depending on the draw.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by fairly4 View Post
    fyi,
    with sasha back in, it might just keep alexe gilles,angela maxwell, becky bereswill to one if sasha gets two and kimmie and mirai to one or maybe none depending on the draw.
    I'm not absolutely sure of this, but the USFS can list Sasha for SA as one of its three choices for SA. It doesn't have to, so we must wait and see what the USFS will do for Sasha. Also she is not in the mix for other Host countries to choose.

    She is eligible to skate a Regional or Sectional to qualify for the US Nats

    The USFS can name her to the Team for the Olys but if she doesn't do well in the Sectionals and US Nats there is Doubt! I don't believe her Oly silver has anything to do with it.

    She probably will feel a good deal of pressure at SA or US Nats.

  9. #114
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    Sasha does NOT have to do Regionals and Sectionals because she is a reigning Olympic medalist.

    Sasha MAY be eligible for GP invitations in addition to the host pick. It depends on how the ISU applies this new rule:

    Skaters/couples, seeded in any previous year (place 1 to 6 in the respective World Championships), and who due to injury or no fault of their own, were forced to sit out competitive season(s) could be considered for selection for up to 2 assignments, if they return to competitive skating.

  10. #115
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Sasha does NOT have to do Regionals and Sectionals because she is a reigning Olympic medalist.

    Sasha MAY be eligible for GP invitations in addition to the host pick. It depends on how the ISU applies this new rule:
    Thanks for clearing that up for me.

    OK on how the ISU applies the Rule, but if it just concerns injury or 'no fault of their own', which is clearly open to interpretation, not unlike 'appropriate costumes', how can she explain that she was making money in a skating show through no fault of her own?

    For more than 1GP, this has to be a dilly if the ISU approves her absence for a second GP. JMO

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I'm not absolutely sure of this, but the USFS can list Sasha for SA as one of its three choices for SA. It doesn't have to, so we must wait and see what the USFS will do for Sasha.
    That's a great point, and one that hasn't been brought up yet on this thread. Just because Sasha announces that she would be willing to compete at Skate America does not mean that the USFSA will automatically go along.

    As Fairlyfour points out, assigning Sasha to Skate America would have to be at the expense of someone else -- maybe Mirai? -- who might then lose out on a chance to get two GP assignments.

    I wonder if the USFSA will require Sasha to do some kind of test skate before the event, to see if she is really up to speed before they give away one of the coveted SA spots.

  12. #117
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    Actually, this is the best of all possible worlds. Sasha would be a big ratings draw, possibly the biggest we have. That means there will be less pressure to have Caroline there.

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    Ah, but the problem for Sasha is that she must be ready to compete in November, after only 5 months of practice. That's a tall order after being away from competition for 3 1/2 years.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by PolymerBob View Post
    Actually, this is the best of all possible worlds. Sasha would be a big ratings draw, possibly the biggest we have. That means there will be less pressure to have Caroline there.
    I don't know why Caroline fans think she will have a tougher time at Skate America than at some other GP event. At Skate America her only competition could turn out to be Rachael (whom she can beat) and Miki (whom she might beat.)

    If she doesn't go to Skate America, but somewhere else instead, she might end up facing Yu-na Kim, Mao Asada, Carolina Kostner and Yukari Nakano, all at the same competition.

    Anyway, if I were Shep Goldberg (Caroline's agent) I would be lobbying the uSFSA as hard as I could to get Caroline's face on U.S. television as much as possible between now and the Olympics. It might mean a Wheaties box for her!

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    That's a great point, and one that hasn't been brought up yet on this thread. Just because Sasha announces that she would be willing to compete at Skate America does not mean that the USFSA will automatically go along.

    As Fairlyfour points out, assigning Sasha to Skate America would have to be at the expense of someone else -- maybe Mirai? -- who might then lose out on a chance to get two GP assignments.

    I wonder if the USFSA will require Sasha to do some kind of test skate before the event, to see if she is really up to speed before they give away one of the coveted SA spots.
    I think the NBC TV situation also needs to be considered. Since they are televising SA, I'm sure USFS will be under SOME pressure to offer Cohen a spot because that would mean she gets TV coverage, which would give NBC something to promote for Nationals and the Olympics, and possibly give SA a small ratings boost, not to mention higher attendance for the event.

    That said, you are absolutely right that the USFS could still deny Cohen that spot and send her elsewhere in order for Nagasu or Zhang to have a shot. Frankly, I think that would be a mistake. I think the way to do it is to go ahead and offer Cohen that third spot, but to make doubly sure that the alternate (whomever it is) is ready for the event in the likely case that Cohen withdraws.

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