Changing The Image Of Men's Figure Skating

[dorispulaski]

I always thought that I would like very very simple costumes, but seeing V&M at Worlds this year I immediately realized that it doesn't work. ... (And if they really had to skate in all black, why the heck didn't she use boot covers?...

I agree.

The strangest thing was the way her white boot appeared to be growing out his head in the pair spin. I don't know quite why, but it struck me as odd, odd, odd.

And I had thought they were supposed to be 60's/70's hippie kids in the program...so the black was ever stranger. The new costumes seem to want to be used for Memorial or some other sombre type music rather than Pink Floyd.

I liked the old costumes much better.

It should be noted, however, that the costumes did not seem to affect their scores. Which is a good thing, I think.

[Joesitz]

But if every couple were to wear the same costume, would it hurt the results? The question is which is more important, the competition or the fashion fans?

[i love to skate]

There are apparently some pictures of the Canadian skaters that nobody seems to be able to locate right at the moment.

Skate Canada sent out the pictures and some behind the scenes shots to Skate Canada members and from what I gather they will be released to the public over the next year!

[DragonPhoenix]

But if every couple were to wear the same costume, would it hurt the results? The question is which is more important, the competition or the fashion fans?

Why not have both ? Again, why you are you so eager to limit the expression of figure skaters ?

It's not a question of which is more important.

It doesn't have to be one or the other.


What you would end up doing is limiting a form of artistic expression.

I say, have both. It's more fun.

[Joesitz]

Why not have both ? Again, why you are you so eager to limit the expression of figure skaters ?

Simply because I am hoping Figure Skating gets into the mainstream of Sports and not Fashion.

If Figure Skating fans want Fashion as an adjunct to the Sport, so be it. I'm just rendering my view that the Sport is the thing, not the fashion thing which I believe gets in the way of mainstream newsmen. It tends to make Figure Skating a girly sport as well as a teenybopper sport - not like Liberty or LPG which have the respect of news media.

But, I just wont accept men wearing sequins, and rhinestones in a sport. But hey, it's ok in a show.

[ballerynna]

They put it on TV on a more or less regular basis. Also, IMO they appreciate the stars they have got and try to give them support.

But for me the most important fact is that events are televised.

I agree that showing skating on TV helps but how do we get from Skater A on TV to say Yu-Na Kim? I mean, the way it is in the US, networks have to know who's popular enough to show on TV but how do these skaters become popular enough to actually be shown?

Japan and Korea must've been really promoting their skaters in other media just to get the general public to love their skaters and get them to their level of popularity. Or is it more because they keep winning?

[Joesitz]

I agree that showing skating on TV helps but how do we get from Skater A on TV to say Yu-Na Kim? I mean, the way it is in the US, networks have to know who's popular enough to show on TV but how do these skaters become popular enough to actually be shown?

Japan and Korea must've been really promoting their skaters in other media just to get the general public to love their skaters and get them to their level of popularity. Or is it more because they keep winning?

Japan and Korea, from what I read, really promote the sport on TV, but do they discuss the fashions?

We know about us networks which will only play up money making (read sponsors) to show on TV. Those top skating people are not Stars in the eyes of the public unless there is something out of the ordinary and non skating related.
Tonya Harding had her fifteen minutes.

[Shangrila]

Simply because I am hoping Figure Skating gets into the mainstream of Sports and not Fashion.

If Figure Skating fans want Fashion as an adjunct to the Sport, so be it. I'm just rendering my view that the Sport is the thing, not the fashion thing which I believe gets in the way of mainstream newsmen. It tends to make Figure Skating a girly sport as well as a teenybopper sport - not like Liberty or LPG which have the respect of news media.

But, I just wont accept men wearing sequins, and rhinestones in a sport. But hey, it's ok in a show.

That is a cultural issue. Not a figure skating issue.

Worrying about whether something is girly or not, and
worrying about which is more masculine or more feminine is immature IMO.

As if femininity in a man or in a woman is a plague or something. Completely ridiculous IMO

I think in Russia they don't have such a problem with this issue. Or at least, less of a problem with it.

And although this thread is about Men's Figure Skating, I would hate for them to start limiting Ladies costumes as well.

[snowflake]

An appropriate completely black costume with some diamonds at 1:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy2cfZPa_j8

[jennylovskt]

Simply because I am hoping Figure Skating gets into the mainstream of Sports and not Fashion.

If Figure Skating fans want Fashion as an adjunct to the Sport, so be it. I'm just rendering my view that the Sport is the thing, not the fashion thing which I believe gets in the way of mainstream newsmen. It tends to make Figure Skating a girly sport as well as a teenybopper sport - not like Liberty or LPG which have the respect of news media.

But, I just wont accept men wearing sequins, and rhinestones in a sport. But hey, it's ok in a show.

Figure skating will never get into the mainstream of sports because the majority of the men and women do not care about the artistic side of this sport. If we limit the artistic perspect of figure skating, it won't be called figure skating. I am all for "figure skating the sport", not "figure skating the fashion", but this unique sport has the precious artistic beauty that needs costume to perfect it. Sequins are not necessary. There really is no clear cut how much is too much. It's a matter of an individual taste. For example, Johnny Weir's 2007-08 LP costume was disgusting to me because it's too feminine. I like Plushenko's 2003 "St.Petersburg 300" costume and Lysacek's 2004 SP bull-fighter costume.

If any one wants to change men's figure skating to more masculine sport, emphasize the quad jumps should be the way. Even though, I believe, to tune down the costumes and emphasize the quad jumps won't do much for bringing back more audience, especially in the countries like US, Canada where everyone is so sensitive about gay issues. I believe there are not many gay issues in Japan, Korea, and China. So the men over there would, and could express more freely about their soft, artistic side.

Isn't that a bi-product of the freedom? So widely and constantly talk about gay rights and gay issues. People who are not gays are afraid of being mistakenly thought they are. So they have to hide their soft side in order to fit the public description of a man.

[dancingqueen]

There really is no clear cut how much is too much. It's a matter of an individual taste. For example, Johnny Weir's 2007-08 LP costume was disgusting to me because it's too feminine.

I didn’t feel it’s disgusting at all, because the costume fit Johnny, but if it was worn by Yagudin type of skaters, I would feel it’s disgusting because I don’t feel it fit those type of skaters.
Femininity is fine to me if it looks natural and fits the skaters. Personally I prefer more feminine type to masculine. But it has to be natural.

[jennylovskt]

I didn’t feel it’s disgusting at all, because the costume fit Johnny, but if it was worn by Yagudin type of skaters, I would feel it’s disgusting because I don’t feel it fit those type of skaters.
Femininity is fine to me if it looks natural and fits the skaters. Personally I prefer more feminine type to masculine. But it has to be natural.

I actually prefer the gentleman like, sensitive men. They are still masculine. Masculinity plus sensitivity are the charming combination for a man.

[dancingqueen]

I actually prefer the gentleman like, sensitive men. They are still masculine. Masculinity plus sensitivity are the charming combination for a man.

Oh, I love sensitive men. And I don’t call it feminine or masculine.
Honestly why I used the words feminine and masculine is people are often sorting and categorizing that way, and for people to understand.
However to me , I just take people as they are. Maybe my view of femininity is different from yours.

Johnny’s "My Way" program looks really charming gentleman, IMO, also he has many faces depending on the program. And I’m watching the story of the program rather than thinking “ is this feminine or masculine? “. Masculine does not necessarily equal good or better, in my book.

[NatachaHatawa]

Except the flaws in 6.0 were from the lack of judging oversight, sometimes with judges blatantly ignoring mandatory deductions left and right. Guess what, that still happens! We still have no oversight, and now we have a system which didn't fix any of those flaws, and also introduced its own worse flaws. CoP tries to turn the artistic side of the sport into a set of neatly divided categories and it simply fails. It fails. It's a systemic flaw, it's a completely wrong premise and that can't be tweaked or improved.

If the corrupt ISU had done what it should have done, which was institute serious judging oversight and rule enforcement, actually punish judges and federations who cheat, and continue to tweak 6.0 (remember it had required elements? It wasn't just pulling numbers out of a hat) then that would have been best for the sport. Figure skating, at the very least the artistic side of figure skating, must be judged by fair judges using a subjective scoring system, not anonymous judges using a checklist. There is no equation for artistry.

You think a subjective scoring system is never returning in any fashion, and I'm convinced you're wrong. I'm just ahead of the curve, as always. All it will take is a continued slide down, down, down on the path we are on, declining viewership, declining attendance, perhaps a change in leadership (BYE SPEEDY!!) and perhaps new companies buying rights to things and "encouraging" another major change in the system. It could be 10 years off for all I know, but it will happen. Until then, deal with the whining, because I'm not laying down and accepting a flawed system which is killing the only sport I like.

You expressed my view perfectly!

[jennylovskt]

Oh, I love sensitive men. And I don’t call it feminine or masculine.
Honestly why I used the words feminine and masculine is people are often sorting and categorizing that way, and for people to understand.
However to me , I just take people as they are. Maybe my view of femininity is different from yours.

Johnny’s "My Way" program looks really charming gentleman, IMO, also he has many faces depending on the program. And I’m watching the story of the program rather than thinking “ is this feminine or masculine? “. Masculine does not necessarily equal good or better, in my book.

You and I only have difference in the degrees. I do like Johnny Weir's "My Way". But his style is often "like" and "not like" borderlined to me. I am bored with his last two years' competitive programs. The most recent example of what I think is charming was Brian Joubert's 2009 World's Exhibition program. Brian's this number is a perfect example of masculinity blending with tenderness. I love it! I feel that I have just discovered a new Brian Joubert.