Changing The Image Of Men's Figure Skating | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Changing The Image Of Men's Figure Skating

DragonPhoenix

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
I am in USA, and I was in Canada. But I still don't understand what you are talking about.


Are you actually serious ?

You are in the USA and you haven't seen all the women's body building magazines ? Heck, even Madonna, later on, built up her body and looked more manly.

If you can't see it, I guess you are blinded to it. That's all.

Nothing wrong with being fit and in good shape. That's one thing. But going to extremes and trying to be manly, that's another. I prefer the feminine look.

Just my taste.
 

jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Are you actually serious ?

You are in the USA and you haven't seen all the women's body building magazines ? Heck, even Madonna, later on, built up her body and looked more manly.

If you can't see it, I guess you are blinded to it. That's all.

Nothing wrong with being fit and in good shape. That's one thing. But going to extremes and trying to be manly, that's another. I prefer the feminine look.

Just my taste.

Of course, women's body building magazines are body building magazines. Madonna is not an average American. Look at the average women in America, how many women could you find on the streets, in the malls, or any where that have these extremes? I go to 24 Hours fitness center regularly. I rarely see a woman who could fit the name you gave.

I believe that everything has to have a limit. If it goes over the board, it will become the opposit. For example, drink a little wine could boost the blood flow in the body and prevent desease, but if you drink too much and become drunk, it will become a source of trouble and also damage one's health. Maybe I was wrong, but you jumped in and cheered the name that dancingqueen has just made up. It sounds like that you and dancingqueen think that people have some sort of bias by not liking a man acting like a woman. (I am not talking about gay. I don't care about gay or not gay. That's not my business.) But to observe a kind of art, such as the artistic perspect of figure skating, there is nothing wrong with people who do not like some kind of style, including not liking a man acting like a woman. I think it's natural. Bias is a fashionable word these days, isn't it? Everything can be raised onto the level of bias. When the word "bias" comes along, it seems that there is something wrong. So be it.

If you like feminine men, go ahead. There is nothing wrong with it. I don't. Again I don't like "Joe-Six-Pack", and I don't like feminine men. I like gentleman like men. There is nothing wrong with that either. Is that bias?:cool:
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
If you like feminine men, go ahead. There is nothing wrong with it. I don't. Again I don't like "Joe-Six-Pack", and I don't like feminine men. I like gentleman like men. There is nothing wrong with that either. Is that bias?:cool:
Not at all, but what does it have to do with skating?

I like a lot of male skaters in all different spots on the gender spectrum.

Unfortunately there's not a lot of variety of that kind among the women, but I'm also in favor of women who stretch gender stereotypes, even though I like a good ice-ballerina too.

And it has little to do with who I find attractive in everyday life, or my social-political views for that matter. Great skating is lawless when it comes to sexuality. I guess it comes down to whether they can "make it work," to quote Tim Gunn.
 

DragonPhoenix

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Of course, women's body building magazines are body building magazines. Madonna is not an average American. Look at the average women in America, how many women could you find on the streets, in the malls, or any where that have these extremes? I go to 24 Hours fitness center regularly. I rarely see a woman who could fit the name you gave.

I believe that everything has to have a limit. If it goes over the board, it will become the opposit. For example, drink a little wine could boost the blood flow in the body and prevent desease, but if you drink too much and become drunk, it will become a source of trouble and also damage one's health. Maybe I was wrong, but you jumped in and cheered the name that dancingqueen has just made up. It sounds like that you and dancingqueen think that people have some sort of bias by not liking a man acting like a woman. (I am not talking about gay. I don't care about gay or not gay. That's not my business.) But to observe a kind of art, such as the artistic perspect of figure skating, there is nothing wrong with people who do not like some kind of style, including not liking a man acting like a woman. I think it's natural. Bias is a fashionable word these days, isn't it? Everything can be raised onto the level of bias. When the word "bias" comes along, it seems that there is something wrong. So be it.

If you like feminine men, go ahead. There is nothing wrong with it. I don't. Again I don't like "Joe-Six-Pack", and I don't like feminine men. I like gentleman like men. There is nothing wrong with that either. Is that bias?:cool:


Wrong again. I'm a straight man. I have no interest in men.

When I watch figure skating, women or men, I’m looking for creativity and artistry.

As far as men are concerned, I don’t care if they show femininity or not. I don’t judge people that way. I like to see creative and talented artists.

Madonna was an average looking American until she went through a period where she macho’d herself up.

I'm an American who has traveled to and lived in many countries around the world.

So I have my own view of femininity in women and different cultures.

All humans have masculine and feminine parts to their personality. Nothing wrong with that.

By the way, you said
I don't care

You obviously do, otherwise you wouldn’t keep coming back.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
you know, it seems that it should be that anyone can pick and choose who they like for any host of reasons - and it not be wrong.

We're screaming for skating to keep its creativity which makes it subjective...

some people like masculine over feminine... and vice versa... some like a hodge podge and it's all based on superficial non skating things... none of this is wrong... all of this makes up skating. It's not fair to call one person out for being wrong.
 

dancingqueen

On the Ice
Joined
May 17, 2008
It sounds like that you and dancingqueen think that people have some sort of bias by not liking a man acting like a woman. (I am not talking about gay. I don't care about gay or not gay. That's not my business.)


This discussion started from your words “ Johnny Weir’s costume is disgusting because it’s too feminine. “ Actually I was offended by this comment, because the way how you wrote sounded like as if femininity is something wrong, and also while you were putting up other skaters, Plushenko and Lysacek’s costumes you were putting Weir ‘s down for being too feminine. I thought it’s not really fair comment.

Of course everyone is entitled to our opinions, but I was more wondering why you wanted to write about it, what’s the source of the psychology came from ? It sounded homophobic to me. One of the sources of homophobia comes from anti - femininity. I can’t say this particular comment came from homophobia but it sounded like it.

Everyone has likes, don’t likes for many things, this is nothing wrong with that, but the comment “disgusting” was too strong , so it bothered me. Likes and dislikes can also come from personal issues as well.

I don’t think it’s about right or wrong. But I do believe that mature people know what to talk, what not to talk. I felt it was an offensive comment. For myself , I also have to be careful for it.
Well, I should ignore those kind of comments from now on.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
i love johnnys costumes cause they are unique and go only on him. He was the only one who could have a camile.
My fav Plushy costume is the Tosca one, maybe one of the best elegant I ve seen in fs. And Adagio. He had some bad ones at the beginning of his carrier, but I ve chosen to forget them.
Lysacek's costumes are a bit too much, this year the one for bolero with the cross was a bit scary and the Lp costume, though elegant, not very jazzy, didnt fit his program.
Joubert's...I would like to see him with simple cotton or velvet fabric once instead of vinyl and plastic, I suspect he would look good.
Chan's are ok, but they remind me some choices of Buttle.
Van den Perren and Ponsero have some strange ones.I think I like Verner's most these days.

*Now i read last pages of the thread carefully i think i m out of subject, i thought you were discussing costumes. I m sorry.
 
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Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
let's try and take a step back. there's no reason to jump on a post. without a tone of voice and an immediate way of clarifying more confusion is more than likely what we'll get before we find a solution to this "problem"
 

jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
*Now i read last pages of the thread carefully i think i m out of subject, i thought you were discussing costumes. I m sorry.

:biggrin: I like your sense of humor. You are on the topic. I was out of the topic to address the word "bias" that appeared in the post. The more it goes, the more words come out which I found that I wanted to confront. Oh, well. I am ready to move on.

Back to the topic. I like Jeffrey Buttle's 2006 Olympics' LP costume very much. Red on him is so nice.
 

gio

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Costumes are part of the program and so are very important. FS is not just a sport, but a mix of athleticism and art. When you go to the theater you see that the actors may wear heavy make-up and have strange costumes. It depends on the characters they have to portray. A FS program is the same. If you use the soundtrack of the "Last of the Mohicans" and you want to portray a Mohican IMO you have to wear something that resembles a Native American costume. A black costume would be innapropriate.
Weir costumes were ok IMO. He seems to care about fashion and I don't see anything wrong with that. He uses costumes that goes well to the music - example is Swan.
Lysacek Carmen costume and Gershwin program costumes were OK too. Van Der Perren costume was ok too considering he was skating to techno music.

The media, Stojko or anybody else can say anything they want against it, I just don't care and skaters such as Weir should not care too.
FS with simple costumes will loose some of its appeal. Why people wants to take away all the beautiful things FS has I really don't understand.
 
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Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
I don't know what Stojko meant to say, and whether or not his comments where edited in a way that twisted the original meaning. I do agree with him in part when he says that in some areas figure skating is going backwards and that there needs to be risk. It's going forwards in other areas, but it's not inappropriate to point out that the jump content that wins championships right now is not the kind of content we saw earlier in this decade.

That having been said, I disagree with his trying to box men's skating into one interpretation. Men's skating, like every discipline, should be diverse in style and approach; this is what I don't like about the current direction, that it's also encouraging a specific approach to skating, just not the one Elvis is advocating. What I would say is that men's skating can't be just about finessing the judging system and having pretty entries into triples; just like it shouldn't be a "count the clean quads and triples" contest.

Costumes - seniorita, you know I'm always up for fashion police! Here are a few:
Johnny - yes, only he could have had a Camille. I liked it. I think he's hilarious and needs to stop being generic and go back to being wacky.
Brian - his Untouchables costume back in 2003 was great. His EX outfits also tend to be good, nice and simple like you suggested. Here he is performing Rise when it was still an EX - and he went from that to, well, we all know what. But he should never be allowed to wear velvet, ugh! It's so not him.
Evan - is handsome, but his costumes are usually boring, ugly, or both.
Tomas - yes to the SP costume he had in 2008-9. Sort of yes to his Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon outfit. Absolute no to what he wore for his tango LP this past season, and to his 2007 SP look.
Stephane - no on the zebra. Yes to the Poeta costume.
Kozuka - no on the Barney look in his 2008-9 LP. Dressing up to go bowling (2007-8 SP) was great! Really cute.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
thats why i said maybe brian should try something else, i think a stylish costume, simple and not sexy kind of stuff on, will suit him. The Rise costume, i dont know who imagined it for safri duo music..:cool:and Last of Moichans..:unsure:I think the worse for me was james bond one.
Is it safe here to say I never got Elvis style of skating, I ve seen him only after 1998 and I know his grand history in fs but he was the less pleasant to watch(fpr me always).
speaking of zebra (me i liked very much this costume) have you seen this photo?:laugh: lambiel
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
speaking of zebra (me i liked very much this costume) have you seen this photo?:laugh: lambiel
:rofl: No way should that zebra be on the podium. It had crappy transitions and did a lot of two-footed running away from the lions.

Brian Joubert's costumes - of the more elaborate ones, I think The Matrix was the one that worked best in the context of the program. The Jamed Bond ones weren't great, but nothing compares with his first Last of the Mohicans costume. I wish he'd do something just a bit more subtle.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Figure Skating, as an International sport, has always been U.S. focused. Meaning this is where the money was to support it. The U.S. is where coaches and skaters came from all over the world. That has changed and the money is drying up. I don't think Britain is going to pick up the slack either, or Italy or anyone else for that matter. There isn't any money in Europe or Britain for them to fill the vacuum that is currently being created. So it is not a good situation for the sport.

The economic crisis is going to take it's toll on many things, and skating is one of them. The only comment i was making was the myopic declarations of the end of figure skating because there isn't a US ice princess out there winning everything. Britain, Italy and other countries with few top level skaters have already lived through a time with no skating on television and only one skater or couple in each event. It's not the end of the world. It makes me laugh the doom and gloom projected about the US ladies - one of whom got 5th at worlds, when i think about how great people thought it was in the UK when steven cousins was in the final group of an LP :laugh:

I think it is great that the Eurosport commentators do such a wonderful job, but that has nothing to do with the U.S. CoP is unintelligible to the average U.S. viewer. I don't believe our commentators buy into this European designed system either. We need to see it from the perspective of the average viewer, and not our own insular little skating world, or the sport will die.

The COP was mostly designed by the Canadians not Europeans. Canadians aren't struggling with and other countries are going to great lengths to try to get the viewing public to understand and buy into the COP. If the US commentators are not in it to help the sport, then maybe new ones should be found? The sport will never die. Public interest in it will ebb and flow. There will be good times when the competitions are all over the TV and there is plenty of money in the sport, and other times where there will be less money and less exposure, that's the way it goes.

Ant
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
dear god, HOW i have missed this costume?
You missed it because he only used it once, at the French Masters event. By TEB he had the second costume.

My guess as to how this came about is something like this: Brian's costume designer also did John and Sinead Kerr's costumes (so said John in an interview, IIRC). Clearly she was busy with their costumes and then about two days before the Masters she realized something had to be done. So she thought: Last of the Mohicans, let's see: Mohicans and feathers go together like, well, birds of a feather! So she made that... thing and sent it with UPS or DHL or whatever. Brian got it five minutes before he had to skate, and it was too late to find something else; his only other option was to recycle the Rise costume. So he wore the feathered monstrosity, which so distracted him that he lost to Alban Preaubert! He knew he had to appease the skating gods, and discarded the hideous thing.

But the gods still exacted their revenge by knocking him off the TEB podium.
 
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antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
This may be irrelevant, but I recall all the stuttering and muttering coming from my Eurosport commentators, when Chan won TEB 2008 over Kozuka. They kept saying "but it's ehm the overall quality of his skating" and sounded so uncertain and insecure, that I went completely LOL :laugh: But ah it was late in the evening and I was probably the only person in the country who watched that broadcast, so no harm was really done.

I know that one really likes his skating and the other really doesn't but forget which one feels which way! It is fnny to hear them comment. They also suffered in the GP from not having the protocols.

Ant
 
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