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Thread: Changing The Image Of Men's Figure Skating

  1. #121
    Rink Rat i love to skate's Avatar
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    A little off topic - did anyone else get the email from Skate Canada with the Harley Davidson pictures? I know many people were laughing when they heard about this and thought it was a ridiculous idea but the pictures are amazing! I looked through them and must say they turned out great. Canada has the best looking skaters - WOW! The skaters featured are Cynthia, Joannie, Myriame, Jess and Bryce, and Kaitlyn and Andrew.

  2. #122
    L'art pour l'art Medusa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    Canada has the best looking skaters - WOW! The skaters featured are Cynthia, Joannie, Myriame, Jess and Bryce, and Kaitlyn and Andrew.
    Let's put a IMO onto that. (I e.g. would vote for Russia or Japan on that one.)

    But I still would like to see those pictures .

  3. #123
    Rink Rat i love to skate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    Let's put a IMO onto that. (I e.g. would vote for Russia or Japan on that one.)
    Maybe you'll change your mind after you see the pictures I think they will be released over the next year.

  4. #124
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by viv View Post
    They put it on TV on a more or less regular basis. Also, IMO they appreciate the stars they have got and try to give them support.
    I think this is what Ballerynna meant when she mentioned the chicken and the egg.

    In the U.S., figure skating is not popular because it is hardly ever shown on TV. And it is hardly ever shown on TV because it is not popular.

    OK, Captain Grammar here.

    When ISU communications butcher the Queen's English I usually cut them some slack because the authors are not native speakers. But...can we please not try to make a verb "to message" out of the noun "message?" Or at least can we stop short of then making a new noun "messenging" out of the present participle of the new verb "to message?"

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    Personally, I think people romanticize 6.0 too much. I suppose we remember all the spectacular, beautiful programs that skaters like Janet Lynn and Michelle Kwan did under 6.0 but people also forget those stroke-jump-stroke-jump programs that were as common and dull as the 'checklist'-type programs today.

    And as for scoring, 6.0 can just be as confusing as CoP. Sure, a 6.0 obviously means the program was excellent, and everyone can tell that a program that scored a 5.8, 5.9 was better than one that scored 5.4, 5.2. But isn't it equally easy to tell that a program that scored a 76.03 is better than one that scored 69.24?

    That being said, CoP definitely has its flaws. But so did 6.0.
    Except the flaws in 6.0 were from the lack of judging oversight, sometimes with judges blatantly ignoring mandatory deductions left and right. Guess what, that still happens! We still have no oversight, and now we have a system which didn't fix any of those flaws, and also introduced its own worse flaws. CoP tries to turn the artistic side of the sport into a set of neatly divided categories and it simply fails. It fails. It's a systemic flaw, it's a completely wrong premise and that can't be tweaked or improved.

    If the corrupt ISU had done what it should have done, which was institute serious judging oversight and rule enforcement, actually punish judges and federations who cheat, and continue to tweak 6.0 (remember it had required elements? It wasn't just pulling numbers out of a hat) then that would have been best for the sport. Figure skating, at the very least the artistic side of figure skating, must be judged by fair judges using a subjective scoring system, not anonymous judges using a checklist. There is no equation for artistry.

    You think a subjective scoring system is never returning in any fashion, and I'm convinced you're wrong. I'm just ahead of the curve, as always. All it will take is a continued slide down, down, down on the path we are on, declining viewership, declining attendance, perhaps a change in leadership (BYE SPEEDY!!) and perhaps new companies buying rights to things and "encouraging" another major change in the system. It could be 10 years off for all I know, but it will happen. Until then, deal with the whining, because I'm not laying down and accepting a flawed system which is killing the only sport I like.

  6. #126
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Particle Man View Post
    CoP tries to turn the artistic side of the sport into a set of neatly divided categories and it simply fails. It fails. It's a systemic flaw, it's a completely wrong premise and that can't be tweaked or improved.
    This is the strongest of all possible arguments against the IJS. It is just wrong.

  7. #127
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
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    I think it is very possible to judge artistry objectively base on most catagories given(not all). And most of the flaws that people give about COP is not flaws with the system but flaws based of personal opinions and flaws do to human error forced or unforced. It depends on what you really want. Do you want the artistic score to define the most entertaing program, the most unique program, or the most artistic. Artistry can be define as lines,extensions, balance, flow ,contrasting or matching the music, sychronization and symmatry. Rather not it entertain or move you(which can be affect by bias or cultrual differnce) is not the most important aspect. I believe COP goal was to be a system that give all skaters an equal platform to score or win based on their own performance alone. In that believe it is very successful.All the other problems are really dealing with ISU, feds, judges.

  8. #128
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Great comment, ENLIGHT78

  9. #129
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPhoenix View Post
    But a great costume which fits the character and/or story of the program enhances the body language. It does not detract from it in any way. No reason to limit yourself
    So what? A good performer is a good performer is a good performer. He doesn't need sequins.

  10. #130
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enlight78 View Post
    I think it is very possible to judge artistry objectively base on most catagories given(not all). And most of the flaws that people give about COP is not flaws with the system but flaws based of personal opinions and flaws do to human error forced or unforced. It depends on what you really want. Do you want the artistic score to define the most entertaing program, the most unique program, or the most artistic. Artistry can be define as lines,extensions, balance, flow ,contrasting or matching the music, sychronization and symmatry. Rather not it entertain or move you(which can be affect by bias or cultrual differnce) is not the most important aspect. I believe COP goal was to be a system that give all skaters an equal platform to score or win based on their own performance alone. In that believe it is very successful.All the other problems are really dealing with ISU, feds, judges.
    Yes, but we are talking about Sport and not Professional Shows. There is a difference. Have your read those directives for PC scores? In your heart, do you really need that? Dealing with those bullets if indeed, they were covered in the scoring versus the old fashioned whole package, I find misleading. To watch a competition without favoritism, one knows who skated the finest That Night! and costumes have nothing to do with it. It's Sport and not Show skating.

    I don't know why fans want to kill the sport and savor the pagaent?

  11. #131
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I agree with Joe.

    The #1 ISU regulation on costumes is that the costune must be "appropriate for an athletic competition."

    Most skating costumes aren't. If the ISU followed its own rules, everyone would get a costume deduction.

  12. #132
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I agree with Joe.

    The #1 ISU regulation on costumes is that the costune must be "appropriate for an athletic competition."

    Most skating costumes aren't. If the ISU followed its own rules, everyone would get a costume deduction.
    Thanks MM, so there is a vague word on costume. Nice to know. We can say his costume was not appropriate.

    I just thought, for those who like the Pageant way of judging, maybe the ISU could add 5 questions to be answered by the top 5 finishers after the results of the SP and LP.

  13. #133
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Costumes enhance the performer and the performance. Some maybe tacky, some maybe simple, some maybe overdone, and some are really beautiful and brings out the best of a performer and the performance. So, I think it's up to the skater and the choreographer/coach to choose whatever they want, and that's what makes figure skating interesting. The audience may like or not like their costumes/attires but that's the way it is and that's why each skater is unique.

  14. #134
    Custom Title DragonPhoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    So what?

    So what ? Because I don't want to see everyone wearing the same outfits, like a uniform, everyone the same. We can see that everyday.

    How booorrrrrinngggg is that.

    I'm not much of a fan of boring.


    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    A good performer is a good performer is a good performer. He doesn't need sequins.
    Of course a good performer is a good performer. And a great costume makes it even better.

    By no means am I saying that all costumes that have been worn are great.

    However, a great costume adds alot to a great performance.

    The more unique, the more beautiful, the more original, the better.

    We'll just have to agree to disagree.

  15. #135
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Figure skating is not just a sport but is also an art. With sports, you have uniforms to distinguish each competitive groups. With figure skating as an art and a sport, there are different disciplines and the skaters have the right to choose whatever costumes/attires they would desire to wear for their programs. Ice Shows have their whole program with their costumes designed/aimed towards the theme of their show. So, the word "APPROPRIATE" is on the judgment/decision of the figure skater/coach/choreographer and with Ice Shows, the director/choreographer and maybe a costume designer.

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