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Thread: Yuna, Mao and Sasha

  1. #16
    Tanguera feraina's Avatar
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    I wonder how Sasha would fare under the current CoP. I think for her, even more dangerous than the flutz are the potential downgrades. Her jumps were never big, and she often eeked out landing. For her OSM performance, her 3Z, 3F (first), 3R, and the 3S (first) were all downgradable. And I think the 3T-3S sequence she did then would not be counted as a sequence now (but rather two separate jumps, costing her a jumping pass). Her spins, while beautiful and elegant, are no longer uniquely spectacular these days, as Caroline, Alissa, Yukari, and Mao all have great stretch, centering, and speed. Similarly with spirals. Years of competing under CoP has made it necessary for young skaters to develop these skills.

    On the PCS side, PCS scoring has moved farther away from artistry and more toward speed/power since 2006. Joannie Rochette will probably wallop her in PCS, for example, just as she did Alissa Czisny at WC 09. And needless to say, Yu-na & Mao will, too. It will be interesting to see how Sasha will score internationally, and also at National's. She did have all five triples (including the flutz), though, something that seems rarer and rarer nowadays. For that, she'll definitely be ahead of Alissa Czisny.

  2. #17
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    For that, she'll definitely be ahead of Alissa Czisny.
    Alissa has all the jumps except, for some strange reason, the Salchow. Her Lutz is actually pretty good -- the best of the American ladies.

    It's just the part about landing on her feet and not her behind that's the problem.

  3. #18
    Down With It
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    No comparison. And as far as I'm concerned, there may not even BE a comparison...

  4. #19
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Mao easily beat Sasha back in 2005 and would do so again handily. Yu-na would be scored head and shoulders above Sasha. I don't see Sasha as that much of a threat to them, especially yu-na.

    but as for the caroline and sasha comparison, in her defense, sasha was much better when she was 15 than caroline at 15. She had great speed and ice coverage compared to caroline, higher, tighter jumps and an understanding of the music and connection to the audience that you can't teach.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP_e7bKTAd4
    Last edited by Tinymavy15; 05-07-2009 at 10:43 PM.

  5. #20
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    Acting career went down in flames.

    Guess her buddies in Hollywood didn't think to much of her acting abilities but she is America's great (only?) hope right now for a podium presence. I think Mao and Yu Na will decimate her in competition.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    Mao easily beat Sasha back in 2005 and would do so again handily.
    Yeah... Mao just looked so indomitable sitting in 4th place at Worlds.

  7. #22
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    ...and then the 75 point SP in the subsequent World Trophy.

    Cohen would probably do low to mid 60's at best. Being an SP skater, she's already 10-15 points behind the leader(s). She absolutely would not be able to overcome that lead in the FS, not with the layout and mistakes she typically makes. Usually SHE's the one with the lead and loses it on the FS. Forget about winning...doing better than the other Americans should be her goal

  8. #23
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    Gotta love when the people that said "Sasha is lying for PR purposes, she isn't coming back, you're dreaming, you're a fanboy" constantly over and over for years on end, continue to keep talking as if they have any clue whatsoever.

  9. #24
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKFSfan View Post
    I think what we gotta keep in mind is Caroline was 15 this year. Sasha was no where near that level in 2000. Caroline is on her way up and I believe she'll be a front runner in the next quad (barring injury.) Caroline has the horrid mulekick, flutz and wobbly flip take off. Sasha has a flutz and iffy edges, but over all her jumps ARE better (namely 2axle.)
    I think the real statement is that Sasha's jumps WERE better in 2006. I think we will need to wait and see what they're like in 2009 before we comment.

    Ant

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    Mao easily beat Sasha back in 2005 and would do so again handily. Yu-na would be scored head and shoulders above Sasha. I don't see Sasha as that much of a threat to them, especially yu-na.

    but as for the caroline and sasha comparison, in her defense, sasha was much better when she was 15 than caroline at 15. She had great speed and ice coverage compared to caroline, higher, tighter jumps and an understanding of the music and connection to the audience that you can't teach.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP_e7bKTAd4
    I rewatched Sasha's 2000 Nats and Jr Worlds programs, and i still disagree-she may have been a bit faster, not saying much, and I think her ice coverage and edges are even less impressive than Caroline. Plus, Caroline had better entrances/exits with spins, more transitions to jumps (although Sasha did have more height back then and a much better 2axle, it was common for her to have mistakes on landings, like on wrong edges, etc) and a more impressive spiral/FW section than Sasha. I'll give Sasha the edge on the "musical" aspect, Caroline at times just didn't "let go" and seemed too focused on elements., but technically, Caroline's programs were more superior-come on, she regularly gets higher tech marks than most of her competitors! It's the PCS marks that kill her.

    Sasha's National LP debut at 15:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn0_J...om=PL&index=46
    Caroline's National LP debut at 14:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxP6-7M-n-U
    She brought the house down, granted her jumps are eeked out, especially 2a's, and the 3/3 was downgraded, but overall, her program is tougher and better skated than Sasha's-I know COP dictates this, but even under the "easier" 6.0, Sasha had an simpler program in terms of transitions and chore, still flubbed several jumps, traveling spins and fell.

    That exhibition you shared is lovely, BTW, classic Sasha. But "connection to the audience?" I guess that is a subjective topic.

  11. #26
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    Caroline is a lot like Sasha, it's true, but I don't recall any programs where she turned on the fireworks the way Sasha did in her Malaguena, Dark Eyes and Rachmaninov programs. You yourself have called Sasha a bravura skater. Caroline is not (yet). Wish she were - she's wonderful and exquisite, but a little monotonous.
    Good post! Sasha will sell a program better than Caroline but one has to look to the SPand LP programs of Sasha. She has never shown versatility in any of her sugary LPs, which Caroline is also guilty of.

    Kwan stepped it up with Aranjez and mixed lyrical with bravura in the LP. For me, it was her crowning moment. I would love to see Sasha and Caroline do just that. We know Sasha can do both but she should do both in the LP, too, imo. We are waiting for Caroline to throw in a bit of bravura.

    As to the Asian gals, I really think with Kim's speed and high LEVEL triples and Mao's 3A are unreachable by any other Lady in this era of figure skating. One can't help but notice that. However, as both Ladies are musical, can they get emotional? Mao did show emotion with her gypsy number in Tokyo, but YuNa tends to keep a straight face. Jmo.

    I also see the other American gals as working hard right now and expect a US Nationals with several top skaters competing and not just two as in previous years.

    Big Question: How much will Performance rate in this coming season?

  12. #27
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    depend on sasha and whether the judges call her mistakes and downgrade her goe's if not, she will get high score . if the do call maybe high 50's .

  13. #28
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Well, at SA, Sasha may be judged by international ISU judges. At US Nats, it'll be USA judges. Shoule we make a distinction?

  14. #29
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Particle Man View Post
    Yeah... Mao just looked so indomitable sitting in 4th place at Worlds.
    That just means Sasha could place even lower.

  15. #30
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Particle Man View Post
    Gotta love when the people that said "Sasha is lying for PR purposes, she isn't coming back, you're dreaming, you're a fanboy" constantly over and over for years on end, continue to keep talking as if they have any clue whatsoever.
    I don't think anyone believes that Sasha was lying, or anything like that. But there is still the possibility that what this announcement really means is that Sasha is "keeping all her options open."

    We will have to wait and see what happens.
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-08-2009 at 01:11 PM.

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