Yuna, Mao and Sasha | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Yuna, Mao and Sasha

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
...and then the 75 point SP in the subsequent World Trophy. :p

Cohen would probably do low to mid 60's at best. Being an SP skater, she's already 10-15 points behind the leader(s). She absolutely would not be able to overcome that lead in the FS, not with the layout and mistakes she typically makes. Usually SHE's the one with the lead and loses it on the FS. Forget about winning...doing better than the other Americans should be her goal :scratch:
 

Particle Man

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Gotta love when the people that said "Sasha is lying for PR purposes, she isn't coming back, you're dreaming, you're a fanboy" constantly over and over for years on end, continue to keep talking as if they have any clue whatsoever. :rofl:
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
I think what we gotta keep in mind is Caroline was 15 this year. Sasha was no where near that level in 2000. Caroline is on her way up and I believe she'll be a front runner in the next quad (barring injury.) Caroline has the horrid mulekick, flutz and wobbly flip take off. Sasha has a flutz and iffy edges, but over all her jumps ARE better (namely 2axle.)

I think the real statement is that Sasha's jumps WERE better in 2006. I think we will need to wait and see what they're like in 2009 before we comment.

Ant
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Mao easily beat Sasha back in 2005 and would do so again handily. Yu-na would be scored head and shoulders above Sasha. I don't see Sasha as that much of a threat to them, especially yu-na.

but as for the caroline and sasha comparison, in her defense, sasha was much better when she was 15 than caroline at 15. She had great speed and ice coverage compared to caroline, higher, tighter jumps and an understanding of the music and connection to the audience that you can't teach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP_e7bKTAd4

I rewatched Sasha's 2000 Nats and Jr Worlds programs, and i still disagree-she may have been a bit faster, not saying much, and I think her ice coverage and edges are even less impressive than Caroline. Plus, Caroline had better entrances/exits with spins, more transitions to jumps (although Sasha did have more height back then and a much better 2axle, it was common for her to have mistakes on landings, like on wrong edges, etc) and a more impressive spiral/FW section than Sasha. I'll give Sasha the edge on the "musical" aspect, Caroline at times just didn't "let go" and seemed too focused on elements., but technically, Caroline's programs were more superior-come on, she regularly gets higher tech marks than most of her competitors! It's the PCS marks that kill her.

Sasha's National LP debut at 15:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn0_...6335A650&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=46
Caroline's National LP debut at 14:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxP6-7M-n-U
She brought the house down, granted her jumps are eeked out, especially 2a's, and the 3/3 was downgraded, but overall, her program is tougher and better skated than Sasha's-I know COP dictates this, but even under the "easier" 6.0, Sasha had an simpler program in terms of transitions and chore, still flubbed several jumps, traveling spins and fell.

That exhibition you shared is lovely, BTW, classic Sasha. But "connection to the audience?" I guess that is a subjective topic.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Caroline is a lot like Sasha, it's true, but I don't recall any programs where she turned on the fireworks the way Sasha did in her Malaguena, Dark Eyes and Rachmaninov programs. You yourself have called Sasha a bravura skater. Caroline is not (yet). Wish she were - she's wonderful and exquisite, but a little monotonous.
Good post! Sasha will sell a program better than Caroline but one has to look to the SPand LP programs of Sasha. She has never shown versatility in any of her sugary LPs, which Caroline is also guilty of.

Kwan stepped it up with Aranjez and mixed lyrical with bravura in the LP. For me, it was her crowning moment. I would love to see Sasha and Caroline do just that. We know Sasha can do both but she should do both in the LP, too, imo. We are waiting for Caroline to throw in a bit of bravura.

As to the Asian gals, I really think with Kim's speed and high LEVEL triples and Mao's 3A are unreachable by any other Lady in this era of figure skating. One can't help but notice that. However, as both Ladies are musical, can they get emotional? Mao did show emotion with her gypsy number in Tokyo, but YuNa tends to keep a straight face. Jmo.

I also see the other American gals as working hard right now and expect a US Nationals with several top skaters competing and not just two as in previous years.

Big Question: How much will Performance rate in this coming season?
 

fairly4

Medalist
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
depend on sasha and whether the judges call her mistakes and downgrade her goe's if not, she will get high score . if the do call maybe high 50's .
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Well, at SA, Sasha may be judged by international ISU judges. At US Nats, it'll be USA judges. Shoule we make a distinction?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Gotta love when the people that said "Sasha is lying for PR purposes, she isn't coming back, you're dreaming, you're a fanboy" constantly over and over for years on end, continue to keep talking as if they have any clue whatsoever. :rofl:

I don't think anyone believes that Sasha was lying, or anything like that. But there is still the possibility that what this announcement really means is that Sasha is "keeping all her options open."

We will have to wait and see what happens.
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I don't think anyone believes that Sasha was lying, or anything like that. But there is still the possibility that what this announcement really means is that Sasha is "keeping all her options open."

WORD.

We'll see who gets the last laugh. :rock:
 

DarkestMoon

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Say what you want about Sasha, as I am not a fan either, BUT at least Sasha doesn't underrotate. :rock:

I think the real statement is that Sasha's jumps WERE better in 2006. I think we will need to wait and see what they're like in 2009 before we comment.

They were better in 2002; stronger and more air; flutz was smaller, her mini-muleick was nonexistent. She had decent technique on flat. On an edge, well, things went downhill IMHO. If she's working with Rafael during the last six months as she said, I'd imagine she might have improved. Sasha was/is talented, there's no joke in that.
 

Sasha'sSpins

Medalist
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Country
United-States
Guess her buddies in Hollywood didn't think to much of her acting abilities but she is America's great (only?) hope right now for a podium presence. I think Mao and Yu Na will decimate her in competition.

Her acting career is irrelevant to her skating comeback. She has a right to pursue other interests whatever they may be. Not everyone is successful in acting and there is not a thing wrong with trying. Geez the claws do come out along with the catty remarks when you don't like someone. Sad.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
A smaller Flutz like a bigger Flutz loses the counter rotation and so what difference does it make?

The difference between -3GOE (for a severe change of change) and -1GOE (for a slight change of edge).

Ant
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
The difference between -3GOE (for a severe change of change) and -1GOE (for a slight change of edge).Ant
:laugh: Ant - I don't want to get into my pet peeve. I'm as tired of it as posters are reading it.

But if you could just show me a skater on a back inside edge, leaning as if he were on a back outside edge, and then jumping I would soften up a bit on this.

The difference between a closer slight inside edge and a severe inside edge is the difference between a good Flip and a poor Flip.

Sasha did flutz and does she anymore? I haven't seen her skate in quite a while. Skaters, imo, who want to be immediate champions do not learn proper technique when they are young. Some have worked on the severe error and have overcome it. We'll see.
 

DarkestMoon

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
A smaller Flutz like a bigger Flutz loses the counter rotation and so what difference does it make?

My point was that her technique went downhill into a bigger flutz. I'm not saying that she should get leeway. I was saying that her technique was "better" in 2002 and by 2006, it went downhill. Her flutz got bigger and she couldn't even hold a steady edge into her flip (meandering in and out than back inside).The argument can be made for a mini lip versus a big lip.

Thanks so much for taking my quote out of context. :thumbsup:
 
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antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
:laugh: Ant - I don't want to get into my pet peeve. I'm as tired of it as posters are reading it.

:rofl: You don't want to get into it but you will any way!!

You asked what the difference was and i told you. The skaters don't skate to Joe's Rules they skate to the COP which means a slight change of edge will get net them more points than a severe change of edge. I realise that this doesn't mean anything in your black and white world but that's the way it is in the grey! :)

Ant
 

life684

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
:rofl: You don't want to get into it but you will any way!!

You asked what the difference was and i told you. The skaters don't skate to Joe's Rules they skate to the COP which means a slight change of edge will get net them more points than a severe change of edge. I realise that this doesn't mean anything in your black and white world but that's the way it is in the grey! :)

Ant

Even if she Flutzes, judges will still give her +1 and +2 ignoring the rules. We are now very accustomed to these habits.
 

poloska

Rinkside
Joined
May 10, 2009
Even if she Flutzes, judges will still give her +1 and +2 ignoring the rules. We are now very accustomed to these habits.

I really hope that judges won't do such things, because we're all for fair sport! And Sasha was always famous for her spins and spirals, these are the options where she can get +1 or +2 :yes:
 
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