WORD.Originally Posted by Mathman
We'll see who gets the last laugh.
WORD.
We'll see who gets the last laugh.
Say what you want about Sasha, as I am not a fan either, BUT at least Sasha doesn't underrotate.
They were better in 2002; stronger and more air; flutz was smaller, her mini-muleick was nonexistent. She had decent technique on flat. On an edge, well, things went downhill IMHO. If she's working with Rafael during the last six months as she said, I'd imagine she might have improved. Sasha was/is talented, there's no joke in that.I think the real statement is that Sasha's jumps WERE better in 2006. I think we will need to wait and see what they're like in 2009 before we comment.
Her acting career is irrelevant to her skating comeback. She has a right to pursue other interests whatever they may be. Not everyone is successful in acting and there is not a thing wrong with trying. Geez the claws do come out along with the catty remarks when you don't like someone. Sad.
A smaller Flutz like a bigger Flutz loses the counter rotation and so what difference does it make?
The difference between -3GOE (for a severe change of change) and -1GOE (for a slight change of edge).
Ant
Ant - I don't want to get into my pet peeve. I'm as tired of it as posters are reading it.
But if you could just show me a skater on a back inside edge, leaning as if he were on a back outside edge, and then jumping I would soften up a bit on this.
The difference between a closer slight inside edge and a severe inside edge is the difference between a good Flip and a poor Flip.
Sasha did flutz and does she anymore? I haven't seen her skate in quite a while. Skaters, imo, who want to be immediate champions do not learn proper technique when they are young. Some have worked on the severe error and have overcome it. We'll see.
My point was that her technique went downhill into a bigger flutz. I'm not saying that she should get leeway. I was saying that her technique was "better" in 2002 and by 2006, it went downhill. Her flutz got bigger and she couldn't even hold a steady edge into her flip (meandering in and out than back inside).The argument can be made for a mini lip versus a big lip.
Thanks so much for taking my quote out of context.
Last edited by DarkestMoon; 05-10-2009 at 10:48 AM.
You don't want to get into it but you will any way!!
You asked what the difference was and i told you. The skaters don't skate to Joe's Rules they skate to the COP which means a slight change of edge will get net them more points than a severe change of edge. I realise that this doesn't mean anything in your black and white world but that's the way it is in the grey!
Ant
Even if she Flutzes, judges will still give her +1 and +2 ignoring the rules. We are now very accustomed to these habits.
You asked what the difference was and i told you. The skaters don't skate to Joe's Rules they skate to the COP which means a slight change of edge will get net them more points than a severe change of edge. I realise that this doesn't mean anything in your black and white world but that's the way it is in the grey!
Ant
I really hope that judges won't do such things, because we're all for fair sport! And Sasha was always famous for her spins and spirals, these are the options where she can get +1 or +2
Thanks for joining us, poloska. Welcome to the forum. Post often, post long!
Last edited by Mathman; 05-11-2009 at 11:14 AM.
And you will make the same retorts!!!
It's not a wrong edge takeoff, it's a correct Flip takeoff..
Yes, in one sense you're right. But there's no question that it's going to be marked as a wrong-edge lutz.
Either I can't follow this argument or it's just going round in meaningless circles.
Of course i make the retort, I never said i would not (unlike you!).And you will make the same retorts!!!
It's not a wrong edge takeoff, it's a correct Flip takeoff..
I don't know where you are interpreting fear in any of my posts. I don't feel any fear at all, i simply disagree with your opinion that a wrong edge take off lutz is a good or correctly executed flip. You never answer any of my salient questions that pick flaws in your theory either so it's clear you won't enter into a debate that questions your opinions.
You asked a question and didn't like the answer. You state your opinion as fact when it isn't.
My opinion = It is a wrong edge take off lutz.
The scoring system currently in place = It is a wrong edge take off lutz.
Your opinion = it is a flip.
Who is right? Does it even matter? This is a sport, the sport has rules. I agree with the rules as far as wrong edge take offs go (i'm sure you won't disappoint by accusing me of being an ISU sympthiser...though now i've mentioned it you porbably won't bother with your usual routine.)
Ant
Last edited by antmanb; 05-11-2009 at 10:22 AM.
Personally I think if the jump is a flutz it should be called a flip and if that skater attempts 2 flips and 2 "flutzes" it should go down as 4 flips, only 2 being counted. That may get coaches teaching kids properly!
But as it is, I think -GOE's and "e" calls are the right way to do it since the intent IS to do a lutz(flip), but done improperly, and should be treated as being done incorrectly, not as if done well as a flip(lutz).
In regards to Sasha-I wonder how much reworking any jumps/jump combos Sasha can successfully manage under RA given the time frame. Even if he is THE best jump coach ever, it seems to be expecting a lot that suddenly, Sasha is going to have a 3lutz, 3/3's (especially if she's going for a 3lutz/3toe), let alone any consistency in landing 6-7 triples. It would be different if she was, say, Irina, who had stronger jump technique and success with 3/3's in the past. I think Sasha's axle, loop and salchow have always been pretty solid, but feel she had a flutz, exhibited wobbly edges on flips, and the toes, for whatever reason, gave her trouble. I know she has been dealing with tendonitis as of late, but I would think if she really has been (re)working on technique, she would attempt other triples during the tour, just to get some consistency on them.
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