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Thread: Yuna, Mao and Sasha

  1. #46
    Custom Title Sasha'sSpins's Avatar
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    I just don't understand how Sasha after three years never attempted in her time off from competition to correct her flawed edges. Surely she is very much aware of the criticisms on edge jumps. She seems to be really into staying in shape through pilates, yoga, etc. but just doesn't seem to have the discipline to learn her craft properly. It just frustrates me to see gifted skaters like Cohen, and more recently Asada not being able to properly execute the edge jumps. I think like compulsory figures of old there should be some kind of requirement for kids at the novice stage to master their edges before they go on to the next level. jmo.

  2. #47
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post
    I just don't understand how Sasha after three years never attempted in her time off from competition to correct her flawed edges. Surely she is very much aware of the criticisms on edge jumps. She seems to be really into staying in shape through pilates, yoga, etc. but just doesn't seem to have the discipline to learn her craft properly. It just frustrates me to see gifted skaters like Cohen, and more recently Asada not being able to properly execute the edge jumps. I think like compulsory figures of old there should be some kind of requirement for kids at the novice stage to master their edges before they go on to the next level. jmo.
    Edge jumps?? Sasha's salchow, loop and axel (these three are the edge jumps) have always been fine. She used to include two salchows in her LPs before she retired. Her toe-loop technique was also fine, it was the flip and lutz that had bad technique (these are the toe jumps).

    Mao struggled to get the salchow but has done it succesfully a number of times in competition. The rest of her edge jumps are great (save maybe the triple loop as the second half of a combination). For her it is the Lutz (and only the lutz) that have caused her problems, and this season the main problem has been popping it to a double because she's been getting a strong outside edge on it. I have nothing but praise for Mao this season for "sacrificing" success in competitions and pushing herself out of her comfort zone and ofrcing herself to hold the correct edgeon the Lutz reducing the success rate of the jump. Rochette did a similar thing when she re-worked her lutz and she's one of the few with text book technique on both Flip and Lutz. Let's hope Mao can boast the same thing next season.

    Ant

  3. #48
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I have nothing but praise for Mao this season for "sacrificing" success in competitions and pushing herself out of her comfort zone and ofrcing herself to hold the correct edgeon the Lutz reducing the success rate of the jump.


    I think last season was all part of Mrs. Tarasova's master plan. She came right out and said that Mao must suffer pain this year to come up all smiles next year.

    Mao's coaches put her thriugh the ringer in 2008-09. Not only with the Lutz, but also with the insistence on two triple Axels and triple Axel combinations, come hell or high water. Plus, the relentless music and choreography exhausted me just watching it.

    I think the plan is now to ease up on the throttle just enough to quarantee a clean program. Sort of like practicing with weights on your ankles. Once you take them off you're dancing on air.

  4. #49
    On the Ice poloska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post


    I think last season was all part of Mrs. Tarasova's master plan. She came right out and said that Mao must suffer pain this year to come up all smiles next year.

    Mao's coaches put her thriugh the ringer in 2008-09. Not only with the Lutz, but also with the insistence on two triple Axels and triple Axel combinations, come hell or high water. Plus, the relentless music and choreography exhausted me just watching it.

    I think the plan is now to ease up on the throttle just enough to quarantee a clean program. Sort of like practicing with weights on your ankles. Once you take them off you're dancing on air.
    Well said! I think you're completely right! TAT is the best coach in figure skating, she knows what to do for good results. I can't wait for the next season!

  5. #50
    Rink Rat i love to skate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Edge jumps?? Sasha's salchow, loop and axel (these three are the edge jumps) have always been fine. She used to include two salchows in her LPs before she retired. Her toe-loop technique was also fine, it was the flip and lutz that had bad technique (these are the toe jumps).
    I think the poster just meant to say she was suprised Sasha didn't attempt to fix her edges on her flip and lutz.

  6. #51
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    I think the poster just meant to say she was suprised Sasha didn't attempt to fix her edges on her flip and lutz.
    I suppose i'm not that surprised. You take a break from skating and are undecided about a come back. Do you continue to the things you did well in your exhibitions and enjoy life, or do you work like mad to correct a habbit you haven't addressed for the whole of your skating career? What for? She might try now, i suppose but otherwise i see no reason for her to have tried to fix it while she's been touring, undecided about a comeback.

    Ant
    Last edited by antmanb; 05-12-2009 at 05:00 AM.

  7. #52
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    It takes a lot of work to turn a Flutz into a Lutz because the skater has gotten so used to the ease of jumping the normal rotating way that to remedy it to the counter rotating way is a big obstacle. It should be taught specifically by the coaches when a skater is introduced to the Lutz.

    Why is it that European skaters do not have this problem?

  8. #53
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    It takes a lot of work to turn a Flutz into a Lutz because the skater has gotten so used to the ease of jumping the normal rotating way that to remedy it to the counter rotating way is a big obstacle. It should be taught specifically by the coaches when a skater is introduced to the Lutz.

    Why is it that European skaters do not have this problem?
    Because the lip is more prevalent with the European skaters?

    Ant

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I don't think anyone believes that Sasha was lying, or anything like that.
    Hahahahahaha!

    As for Sasha vs. The others -- Only Yun-a is overwhelmingly dominant right now. If Sasha comes back at full strength, she has as much chance at silver as any of the others. Mao's been having meltdowns, Joannie and Miki have a past history of meltdowns. It's amusing that some people hate Sasha so much that they'd actually put more faith in Miki or Joannie, somehow believing Sasha failed more often. They forget that every time Sasha didn't achieve a gold medal, it was seen as "failure." Miki and Joannie were never held to those kinds of expectations.

  10. #55
    Custom Title kittyjake5's Avatar
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    A lot of folks are comparing 2006 Sasha to the current ladies which I think is premature. All of the current lady contenders for medals have been steadily competing and realistically Sasha is at a disadvantage not being in the mix for 3 years.

    Sasha said that this journey is not about medals but about challenging herself and I hope that she is successful in that respect but I just don't see Sasha as the second coming or the saviour of ladies U.S. figure skating. JMO.

  11. #56
    Down With It
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittyjake5 View Post
    A lot of folks are comparing 2006 Sasha to the current ladies which I think is premature. All of the current lady contenders for medals have been steadily competing and realistically Sasha is at a disadvantage not being in the mix for 3 years.
    Yup. Before any predictions of her are made we must first see the 2009 sasha

    It would be too bad if she takes up an OLY spot without being more competitive for a medal than the other US skaters. IMO, give someone else a chance.

    Rochette isn't the same skater she was even last year. This is a more consistent, more dangerous Rochette. As for Ando, however, she is definitely all over the place though

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittyjake5 View Post
    A lot of folks are comparing 2006 Sasha to the current ladies which I think is premature.
    The 2006 Sasha would be somewhat above the current US ladies. I haven't placed her there and I think that would be foolish. I don't think it's unreasonable to place her along side Caroline and Rachael. It's not like she's been sitting on her bum eating bonbons for 3 years. She has been doing SoI and I've heard her teammates have been helping her practice and train for competition. If we get Sasha which is 85% of 2006, and she doesn't run into any unexpected problems with rotations, then with her strong PCS she should still be competitive with Rachael and Caroline. As for being competitive with Mao and Joannie, well that will take a 95% or 100% Sasha (compared with '06), not an 85%. We'll see.

  13. #58
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    I can't even guess what kind of pcs she will get. With a near-clean program, she should be getting pcs close to Yuna IMO.

    One reasonable jump layout for Sasha would be.

    3z
    3f-2t
    3r
    3s-2t-2r
    3t-2a
    3f
    3s (or 3r)

    With this layout, her base value will be less than 1 point lower than Joannie's and within 2-3 points reach to Yuna/Mao's.

  14. #59
    Custom Title Sasha'sSpins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    I think the poster just meant to say she was suprised Sasha didn't attempt to fix her edges on her flip and lutz.
    Yes that is what I meant-sorry for not clarifying. Sasha's flip and lutz is what I meant-I never had a problem with any of her other jumps and I just assumed every knew what I meant.

  15. #60
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    I believe Mao will be stronger next year. This was a year of trial and error, the constant changing of jumps and the reworking of the 3lutz could not have given her confidence. TAT pretty much predicted this would be a growing pains year of sorts. Just in time for the Olympics!

    I really have grown fond of Joannie these past two seasons. She and her team have worked COP to the max and the fact her jumps are pretty solid (few UR's and no "e's") has shown a steady rise in PCS marks. I would love to see her on the podium next winter. I hope the pressure of being Hometown Girl and the reigning Silver Medalist from Worlds doesn't get to her.

    That said, I do believe Sasha can compete with Joannie. I'm not sure who else would be a serious threat, maybe Mikki. Obviously Yu-Na, Mao, Joannie and Mikki are not all going to skate lights out, but as of now, they seem to be the top 4 to watch.

    I think Sasha will have no problems beating the current US Ladies. And I think the USFSA will show her the same favoritism they showed Alissa this year.

    If 2009 Yu-Na and/or Mao skate their best, I don't think even a clean 2006 Sasha could beat them, but that's just my opinion. I am interested to see what the 2009 Sasha is like. And if she wins a medal, all the better!

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