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Thread: Is ordinal judging easier to understand than the CoP?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ....Test: Here are the ordinals of the nine judges, taken from 1997 Europeans (omitting some of the skaters who’s scores are irrelevant to this discussion.)

    Skater A 2 1 4 1 2 2 4 5 5
    Skater B 4 4 3 3 1 3 1 1 2
    Skater C 3 2 2 5 3 5 3 2 1
    Skater D 1 3 1 2 5 4 2 3 4

    Who won?


    I never understood people thinking ordinals easier to understand than CoP. I watched skating under the old system already and never, never tried to understand the judging, just was watching for the beauty of it and accepting the results given in the end.
    Seeing your example made me

  2. #17
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    The perfect 10?? Spun Silver has it really been that long or are you just still on a high from Sasha's annoucement it was called 6.0 for a reason you know!

    Ant
    Oh pish tosh, 10, 6 - what's the difference? Numbers are not my thing.

    Anyway, I'm in an Olympic haze where skating and gymnastics, past and present, all mix together and Alexei Yagudin and Alexei Nemov, Sasha Cohen and Svetlana Khorkina are all shining like stars in the firmament...

    Thanks for the correction.

  3. #18
    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    Since I am from the "old school" of figure skating, yes the ordinal system is easier for me; I find COP a bit cumbersome. I don't know how the skaters (especially the "seasoned" vets) feel.

  4. #19
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I had to buy figure skating for dummies to get an idea on how ordinals works and I still didn't get it (and don't)... I can't keep up with which judges placed which skater first and so on and how many one would need to get gold over silver and how something like the ladies' 02 competition happened (the whole if Slute places here she gets this color medal and Kwan gets gold and blah blah blah)

    CoP works SO much easier. the one with the most points at the end wins...

    and I LOVE that there CAN be huge jumps in placements... 2006 mens LP... yeah I don't like Buttle's PLANNED FALL on a QUAD getting him a bronze... but Evan's jump in the ranks gives ya hope!

  5. #20
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    That's Not the Right Question

    That's not quite the right question to ask. The better question to ask would be: Which system does the paying public find easier to understand? Neither system is a deal breaker for the people who live and breath skating. But CoP certainly is for the general public.

  6. #21
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    CoP, at least the end result, is easy to understand. Without knowing all the levels etc. you know Skater A had a higher score than Skater B. When all the details are out and you want to reason out how the judges arrived at that score, then it's a different story.

    6.0 was easy to get if the ordinals didn't go all over place. So in some events where Skater A got mostly 1s or 2s then its understandable why he/she won over Skater B who got mostly 2s and a smattering of 3s and 4s.

    But since I became a real fan of figure skating during CoP, I guess I understand it better. When I was watching as a casual fan (and a kid) during 6.0, I just rooted for whoever had the most 1s

  7. #22
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steyn View Post
    ^
    I think that's mainly due to layman's psychology. Whether he is an expert or just a 10 year-old kid, one can give an ordinal number to each skater. "This guy is better than the previous guy but is worse than another guy" and so on. Then he has exactly the same set of numbers which can be directly compared with the official result. He may like it or not but in any case he can comment on it and be happy except a few complicated cases.

    On the other hand in the current system, one has to decide the level of each element and GOE, multiply factor 0.8 or 1.6, adds the scores, determines PCS and so on to really compare (or compete) with the official protocol. But one cannot really do this in real time. What he has is some vague number at most which is not much useful because it cannot be directly compared with the official score.

    In other words, you need a lot of analysis to get a final score in the current system, which is almost impossible for a relaxed viewers having a glass of wine in an armchair. You cannot just give one simple number with which you can declare you have finished your job and are ready to comment on judging.
    I agree with this post entirely.

    So now the question is this. Is it the job of the ISU to provide a satisfying emotional experience for the audience (old system) or to determine as objectively as possible which skater completed the most difficult program and did it best -- even, perhaps at the expense of allowing the audience to drift away?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I agree with this post entirely.

    So now the question is this. Is it the job of the ISU to provide a satisfying emotional experience for the audience (old system) or to determine as objectively as possible which skater completed the most difficult program and did it best -- even, perhaps at the expense of allowing the audience to drift away?
    If it's the job of the ISU to provide a "satisfying emotional experience for the audience" we might as well ditch any form of a judging system and turn every competition into a phone-in/audience vote popularity contest cheesefest.

    If the commentators do their job and try to help the paying public into understanding CoP by explaining levels, GOEs, etc, I doubt there would be much confusion. After all, I recall commentators used to explain why one skater got a 5.5 while another got a 5.7 when skating was under 6.0 too. But if commentators are openly bashing CoP and not even TRYING to explain why one skater's footwork got a higher level (for example) than another, I can see why the public thinks CoP is too complicated, if even the "expert" commentators do not like CoP.
    Last edited by evangeline; 05-11-2009 at 12:51 AM. Reason: grammatical error

  9. #24
    Rink Rat i love to skate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladskater View Post
    Since I am from the "old school" of figure skating, yes the ordinal system is easier for me; I find COP a bit cumbersome. I don't know how the skaters (especially the "seasoned" vets) feel.
    I think many of the skaters like the scoring system and as for the seasoned vets there really aren't many of them around anymore and soon they will be pretty much obsolete. For most of the skaters coming up through the ranks, COP has been the only judging system they've known so it isn't "the new system" as it is to the veterans; it's just "the system".

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