The "It Factor"

NatachaHatawa · May 24, 2009

janetfan said:
Actually, 14 year old Mao already had it. But 14 year old Yuna did not. She grew into it as her confidence grew. Mao probably had it by the time she was 7.

I haven't seen any of them skate when they were 14, but I saw them both skate when they were 15, and I'd say that Mao have the "it" factor at fist, gradually came the next season, whereas Yu-Na has always had the "it" factor as far as I can remember. It just goes to show how subjective the "it" factor is.

janetfan · May 24, 2009

NatachaHatawa said:
I haven't seen any of them skate when they were 14, but I saw them both skate when they were 15, and I'd say that Mao have the "it" factor at fist, gradually came the next season, whereas Yu-Na has always had the "it" factor as far as I can remember. It just goes to show how subjective the "it" factor is.

Yes, I agree this can be very subjective. And Dragon is probably correct when stating the "it" factor can be suppressed - but not learned.
Here is Yuna at 15 and still quite introverted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVSpow1HEBQ&NR=1

Very nice skating, but this performance lacks true emotion to me with not much "it factor showing.

At 14, Yuna was very shy showing no personality and making no attempt to connect with the audience. To see her in the K &C looks almost tragic!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnAjs1k2eEw

But the "it" factor was always there and I think we first saw it with her great "Tango" program.
Flash forward to '09 Worlds and Yuna showed skating fans a dose of "it" factor rarely seen in the skating world.

cosmos · May 24, 2009

janetfan said:
Yes, I agree this can be very subjective. And Dragon is probably correct when stating the "it" factor can be suppressed - but not learned.
Here is Yuna at 15 and still quite introverted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVSpow1HEBQ&NR=1

Just to correct, YuNa was 14. (She was born Sep. 1990).

YuNa' best performance at 15 was

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N00zw7LDs1M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhNmsjZEdO0&feature=related

common · May 24, 2009

janetfan said:
Here is Yuna at 15 and still quite introverted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVSpow1HEBQ&NR=1

Very nice skating, but this performance lacks true emotion to me with not much "it factor showing.

Well, just to add some infos about Yuna,(since I think this is not published online yet) Ms.Park said in the book she wrote on her daughter Yuna's education that "Everything changed after experiencing several international events. Seeing for herself that Western skaters skate with full of expressions, Yuna started to change." "Back then, Korean skaters tended to feel awkward expressing something with their bodies." (but now it's been changing a lot since Yuna started to stand out among senior international events.)

So, it is said that Yuna couldn't understand what the connecting with the audience exactly means back then, for she had been skating in the empty rink until she experienced several international events as stated above. The book also writes that she started to learn what "expressions" is from her coaches while preparing for 2004/2005 season, when she was in 2nd year of middle school.

This is when she was 15, same program with what you linked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xf6msOQKXs

Sometimes I hear news when she mentions 'skating', she always emphasizes the importance of connecting with the audience, as many other skaters also do. I guess in her case, that's probably because she felt 'something' inside her while going through the environmental change in her younger years, and knows the importance as well.

janetfan · May 24, 2009

common said:
Well, just to add some infos about Yuna,(since I think this is not published online yet) Ms.Park said in the book she wrote on her daughter Yuna's education that "Everything changed after experiencing several international events. Seeing for herself that Western skaters skate with full of expressions, Yuna started to change." "Back then, Korean skaters tended to feel awkward expressing something with their bodies." (but now it's been changing a lot since Yuna started to stand out among senior international events.)

.

Thanks for pointing that out. And sorry if I got the age wrong on the one clip. I was trying only to show how a younger Yuna was not letting out her full personality on the ice. It has already been mentioned that there are cultural differences and I think Yuna is an example of that. BTW, I am a big Yuna fan and think she has a huge dose of the "it" factor. We were previously discussing how certain skaters - Yagudin was one - didn't show as much "star" power on the ice when they were younger. That is my point about Yuna. Even to see her "Tango" at 15 and then a year later at 16 there is a big difference to me. To see Yuna now leaves no doubt that she has "it" and I think she will show even more next season.

Germanice · May 24, 2009

Subjective, of course ... to me:

Pairs:
Shen/Zhao, Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze, Mukhortova/Trankov

Ladies:
Irina Slutskaya, Lu Chen, Katarina Witt, Yukari Nakano,
Sarah Meier, Elene Gedevanishvilli

Dance:
Neither know nor care ... in the past certainly The Duchesnays ....

Men:
Alexei Yagudin :bow:

Kurt Browning, Evgeny Plushenko (manages "it" even through horrid programs), Stephane Lambiel, Brian Joubert, Johnny Weir, Tomas Verner, Nobunari Oda

janetfan · May 24, 2009

Germanice said:
Subjective, of course ... to me:

Pairs:
Shen/Zhao, Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze, Mukhortova/Trankov

Ladies:
Irina Slutskaya, Lu Chen, Katarina Witt, Yukari Nakano,
Sarah Meier, Elene Gedevanishvilli

Dance:
Neither know nor care ... in the past certainly The Duchesnays ....

Men:
Alexei Yagudin
Kurt Browning, Evgeny Plushenko (manages "it" even through horrid programs), Stephane Lambiel, Brian Joubert, Johnny Weir, Tomas Verner, Nobunari Oda

I think you are the first one to mention Yukari. Maybe she gets lost in the pack but even though I like and dislike aspects of her skating I do find myself rooting for her when she is skating. And I thought she got the biggest ovation of any Lady at 2008 Worlds with a dazzling and energetic skate.

Irina, for all her achievements has also not been mentioned as much on this topic.
I think she had "it" when she was young, then for a couple of years it was suppressed, and then she let it out again. Ofcourse, that means she always had it, just at different levels throughout her long career.
I don't think anyone has mentioned either of the Hughes sisters except one who said Emily does not have "it."

Joesitz (RIP) · May 24, 2009

You don't have to love her but you can't leave her out of this survey. Kwan who never upped her techical after 98 continued winning worlds and when not, medaled anyway! That's fact. What was it? It was IT.

janetfan · May 24, 2009

Joesitz said:
You don't have to love her but you can't leave her out of this survey. Kwan who never upped her techical after 98 continued winning worlds and when not, medaled anyway! That's fact. What was it? It was IT.

No doubt about IT Joe. Although far from unanimous, Michelle has been included on many responses here along with Sasha, Katarina, Oksana and Yuna. For the guys I think Yagudin, Plushy and Johnny have come up the most. I didn't really go back and count though.
Although this was not meant to be a popularity poll, it is quite subjective. I always thought Candelero had a high "it" factor but don't belive his name came up. Going further back, I would think Dorothy had "it" on and off the ice more so than any of the current crop of American ladies. Peggy and Dick were not mentioned either. Less were mentioned in Pairs and Dance and I dont think Torville & Dean came up, (did any Dance team ever come close to them for "it" factor? - they and not Scott or Katarina were the buzz at Sarajevo). The equally great Gordeeva & Grinkov were mentioned several times.
In my memories Janet Lynn had "it" - so much that crowds would jeer when she wasn't on a podium early in her career. Can you think of another skater placing 4th - and on foreign ice - that had to be led out to the ice during the medal ceremony so the crowd could acknowledge her performance? I don't ever remember that happening for anyone but Janet. And who says the Frenchies don't like us :biggrin:

Joesitz (RIP) · May 24, 2009

janetfan said:
No doubt about IT Joe. Although far from unanimous, Michelle has been included on many responses here along with Sasha, Katarina, Oksana and Yuna. For the guys I think Yagudin, Plushy and Johnny have come up the most. I didn't really go back and count though.
Although this was not meant to be a popularity poll, it is quite subjective. I always thought Candelero had a high "it" factor but don't belive his name came up. Going further back, I would think Dorothy had "it" on and off the ice more so than any of the current crop of American ladies. Peggy and Dick were not mentioned either. In my memories Janet Lynn had "it" - so much that crowds would jeer when she wasn't on a podium early in her career. Can you think of another skater placing 4th - and on foreign ice - that had to be led out to the ice during the medal ceremony so the crowd could acknowledge her performance? I don't ever remember that happening for anyone but Janet. And who says the Frenchies don't like us

I think those skaters you mentioned won their medals on the tech and presentation, and nothing which could not be explained. It was genuine and not about "IT", or in the case of Lynn, it was favoritism but not "IT".

Kwan was not a ballerina, nor an intimidator,nor a cutesy wootsy. She had the inexplicable ("IT") way of holding her audience both for and against her. One could not take their eyes from her even when she was not at her best. It's that last italic phrase which she had while the others could only hold it if they won medls.

That is how I view "IT". Others will think of medals or that one special performance that was well received but none of this captures the inexplicable "IT" that Kwan had win or lose.

janetfan · May 24, 2009

Joesitz said:
I think those skaters you mentioned won their medals on the tech and presentation, and nothing which could not be explained. It was genuine and not about "IT", or in the case of Lynn, it was favoritism but not "IT".

Kwan was not a ballerina, nor an intimidator,nor a cutesy wootsy. She had the inexplicable ("IT") way of holding her audience both for and against her. One could not take their eyes from her even when she was not at her best. It's that last italic phrase which she had while the others could only hold it if they won medls.

That is how I view "IT". Others will think of medals or that one special performance that was well received but none of this captures the inexplicable "IT" that Kwan had win or lose.

Maybe we remember T & D differently but they used to rock the house and their performances were highly anticpated." I can think of no other Dance team that ever became the "talk of the games" the way they did back in 84.
Maybe we see "it" differently which is not unusual for this type of thing. I remember Dorothy having prime time network TV Specials, doing many hair commercials, having her hair style copied by many thousands of girls and even the Dorothy Doll was a big item at Xmas for a year or two. To me, that is "it" factor as her popularity captured a vey wide audience.
Janet and favoritism - I don't think I know what you mean with that one. Are you saying a French crowd favored Janet over the three medalists at Worlds? If that is what you mean then I agree. Major "it" factor transcending national lines. Janet also stole the show in Sapporo and usually it is the Gold medalist who is remembered, not the Silver medalist. Again, major "it" factor.
When the sport got in trouble with the audience because Janet was winning the free skates but not the figures - the ISU changed the rules. You may call that favoritism, and maybe you have a good point. I think it was about the most important display of "it: factor in the history of figure skating.
Anyway, no one is right or wrong on this topic and thanks for sharing your views.

Mathman · May 24, 2009

Michelle is lovely, Janet was a dream.

But...

Here's the one! The only! Without peer or rival! Now appearing -- with cast of thousands -- in the colossal, the stupendous, the greatest ice show on earth!!

(And if you ever wondered where Alexei Yagudin got his footwork... :biggrin:

)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO31Da4es_I

seniorita · May 24, 2009

Wow- you wouldn't give Alexei Yagudin the "it" factor! I'm so surprised! I've never heard ofanybody (except fervent Plushenko fans) not believing that Alexei has the "it" factor!

I m plushy fan and i think yagudin had tones of "it"

From past skaters the list is long. One comment for Abt. He is one of the skaters in my list who didnt get credit for his talent, amazing when he skated but if he didnt manage to impose his 'it' factor, was he just too unlucky?Or didnt have it?I dont know if Candeloro had it, I know what he didnt had..a shirt :laugh:

From current eligible skaters Kozuka has "it". It is his aura more than his skate. No Verner, he looks scared most of the times. I m not sure for Johnny, I m trying to distinguish which skaters I like and which have "it". I never thought Lambiel had it,although he was the second favorite, until I saw him live and said 'wow'.

Sometimes the hype around a skater carries you away. Like Abott, after grand prix, but a skater must show "it" in a good or bad days, I feel he doesnt believe he is that good either. With clear mind, I think Mao has more 'it' than yuna, but yuna is already a rockstar and I follow the current.
Isnt It factor called "it" because noone can give a specific name to the fact that a skater can mermerize a half of the audience and keep the other half cold at the same time?

janetfan · May 24, 2009

Mathman said:
Michelle is lovely, Janet was a dream.

But...

Here's the one! The only! Without peer or rival! Now appearing -- with cast of thousands -- in the colossal, the stupendous, the greatest ice show on earth!!

(And if you ever wondered where Alexei Yagudin got his footwork... )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO31Da4es_I

Thanks for the clip mm. No argument from me. Sonja is the original Queen of the ice and always will be.

I did say I think Janet was the most influential skater of the MODERN era - and I still think that is true.
But as far as the "it" factor goes, Sonja is the undisputated heavyweight champion for the ages. No other skater came close.
I was curious if her name would come up and I think it took my happy little rant about Janet to shake it out of somebody.
I see mathman knows his skating history.

Joesitz (RIP) · May 24, 2009

janetfan said:
Maybe we remember T & D differently but they used to rock the house and their performances were highly anticpated." I can think of no other Dance team that ever became the "talk of the games" the way they did back in 84.
Maybe we see "it" differently which is not unusual for this type of thing. I remember Dorothy having prime time network TV Specials, doing many hair commercials, having her hair style copied by many thousands of girls and even the Dorothy Doll was a big item at Xmas for a year or two. To me, that is "it" factor as her popularity captured a vey wide audience.
Janet and favoritism - I don't think I know what you mean with that one. Are you saying a French crowd favored Janet over the three medalists at Worlds? If that is what you mean then I agree. Major "it" factor transcending national lines. Janet also stole the show in Sapporo and usually it is the Gold medalist who is remembered, not the Silver medalist. Again, major "it" factor.
When the sport got in trouble with the audience because Janet was winning the free skates but not the figures - the ISU changed the rules. You may call that favoritism, and maybe you have a good point. I think it was about the most important display of "it: factor in the history of figure skating.
Anyway, no one is right or wrong on this topic and thanks for sharing your views.

Forget the medals, no one could take their eyes off T&D. That, for me is IT

Skaters with "IT" are on a very short list.

janetfan · May 24, 2009

Joesitz said:
Forget the medals, no one could take their eyes off them. That, for me is IT Skaters with "IT" are on a very short list.

Well don't keep us in suspense! Give us your shortlist of "it" skaters.

Joesitz (RIP) · May 24, 2009

Mathman said:
Michelle is lovely, Janet was a dream.

But...

Here's the one! The only! Without peer or rival! Now appearing -- with cast of thousands -- in the colossal, the stupendous, the greatest ice show on earth!!

(And if you ever wondered where Alexei Yagudin got his footwork... )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO31Da4es_I

Thank you bringing up Tico Tico which was one where toepick choreography was used by the mother of us all and I saw it. When I mentioned that I liked Yagudin's toe pick footwork, I also mentioned I was not impressed with it since I had seen it all in many routines 60 years ago. It's not difficult. I think Joubert still uses it.

Joesitz (RIP) · May 24, 2009

janetfan said:
Well don't keep us in suspense! Give us your shortlist of "it" skaters.

Among the Ladies, it would be Henie, Kwan and maybe Helen Belita Jepson. The Men would be Browning, and we'll see about Brezina. Remember, "IT" is someone who mezmorizes you. not necessarly skates a winning routine.

Spun Silver · May 25, 2009

John Curry.

And I think the young Oksana Baiul had as much charisma as any skater I've ever seen.

(This isn't a comprehensive list.)

gocaroline · May 25, 2009

Thanks Seniorita for bringing up Abt. He definitely has a huge IT IMO, just unlucky in getting too many injuries and missed his moment. His straight line step sequecne in 2002 SP is brilliant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zipCnbnxp4&feature=related

The "It Factor"

NatachaHatawa

janetfan

Match Penalty

cosmos

common

janetfan

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Germanice

janetfan

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Joesitz (RIP)

janetfan

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Joesitz (RIP)

janetfan

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Mathman

seniorita

janetfan

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Joesitz (RIP)

janetfan

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Joesitz (RIP)

Joesitz (RIP)

Spun Silver

gocaroline

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