The "It Factor"

dorispulaski · May 22, 2009

In dance, I'd say V&M, D&W, K&N, and B&A all have 'it' in varying degrees! In the past, definitely T&D had 'it' as did A&P.

In men's, Ryan Bradley has 'it' for me...if only he had better basics. So does Lambiel.

Ladies? I haven't gone out of my way to watch the ladies since MK retired. Emily has some 'it' and so does Mirai for me.

Pairs? Pairs is particularly 'it' less for me at this time. Oh for the days of P&P, G&G, B&S, S&P, and even W&O.

efreedman · May 22, 2009

Adam's Chances

janetfan said:
Do you think Rippon has a chance to make the podium this season at Nationals? That would also most likely earn him a ticket to Vancouver unless there were injury issues with one of the more established skaters.

Oh, to be omniscient!

We have to leave that determination up to the skating gods. I'm sure that Adam and his team of Brian Orser and David Wilson are trying their best to seduce them. If you haven't done so already, you might want to read Adam's very thoughtful and well written commentary on YuNa Kim. In that, she identifies what makes her such a powerhouse.

Tinymavy15 · May 22, 2009

I think to many Evan has the "it" factor and that is arguably why he won his world title. His content was not that impressive, nor his technique. It was that "it" factor that gave him the edge and won the freeskate that infamous night he tied with Johnny for the national title.
None of the american ladies have 'it." Both Sasha and Michelle did. Caroline has "it" in exhibitions, she is right on the cusp but skates like a wilting flower in competition often...which holds back the "it" factor.

DragonPhoenix · May 23, 2009

My " It Factor " skaters :

Ladies :

Miki Ando, Sasha Cohen, Yu-Na Kim, Mirai Nagasu, Mao Asada, Elene Gedevanishvili

Ice Dancing :

Tatyana Navka

merrybari · May 23, 2009

I am one of those that believe Evan has the "it" factor. He has a commanding presence on the ice that captivates the crowd and brings the audience to its feet! That spells "it" for me!

For ladies, for me Alissa has a soft "it" - sells with grace and style. Do hope she gets control of her nerves so she can land those jumps.

For dance - Meryl and Charlie and Tanith and Ben for sure. V/M did for me with Umbrellas, but I wasn't too sold on their programs this year. I'm not sure they were either.

Pairs - phew! Actually Denney and Barret are on the edge of "it"! McLaughlin and Brubaker had it last year and I hope they get it back next season.

Tinymavy15 · May 23, 2009

merrybari said:
Pairs - phew! Actually Denney and Barret are on the edge of "it"! McLaughlin and Brubaker had it last year and I hope they get it back next season.

I agree that Denny and Barret are on the verge, but can Keauna and Rockne have "it" one year and not the next? the "it" factor remains, if it was ever really there to being with whether they placed high or not. Falling on salchows should not remove "it".

merrybari · May 23, 2009

Tinymavy15 said:
I agree that Denny and Barret are on the verge, but can Keauna and Rockne have "it" one year and not the next? the "it" factor remains, if it was ever really there to being with whether they placed high or not. Falling on salchows should not remove "it".

Yes, I think anyone can have "it" one year and not the next. It's as much attitude as anything - a spark if you will - that lights the eyes and translates to the ice. If for some reason that spark is missing, which to me it was for M/B last year, then the "it" dims and doesn't reach off the ice into the audience.

I agree "It" isn't a matter of results! You can still have "it" regardless, if the spark is there. Some of the most exciting skaters don't make the podium but still excite the crowd.

NatachaHatawa · May 23, 2009

The "it" factor exists, only it's subjective. Saying, that, some people's "it" factor is so strong that they can make any program amazing.

Here's who I believe have the "it" factor:

Ladies: Yu-Na, Sasha, Shizuka

Men: Alexei Yagudin, Stéphane Lambiel, Brian Joubert, Alexander Abt, Tomas Verner, Johnny Weir, Daisuke Takehashi

Ice dancing: Bourne & Kraatz, Anissina & Peizerat, Navka & Kostomorov,

Pairs: Shen & Zhao, Abitbol & Bernadis

Jaana · May 23, 2009

NatachaHatawa said:
The "it" factor exists, only it's subjective. Saying, that, some people's "it" factor is so strong that they can make any program amazing.

Here's who I believe have the "it" factor:

Ladies: Yu-Na, Sasha, Shizuka

Men: Alexei Yagudin, Stéphane Lambiel, Brian Joubert, Alexander Abt, Tomas Verner, Johnny Weir, Daisuke Takehashi

Ice dancing: Bourne & Kraatz, Anissina & Peizerat, Navka & Kostomorov,

Pairs: Shen & Zhao, Abitbol & Bernadis

Taking out Yagudin, Joubert and Bourne & Kraatz, but otherwise I agree with your list.

NatachaHatawa · May 23, 2009

Jaana said:
Taking out Yagudin, Joubert and Bourne & Kraatz, but otherwise I agree with your list.

Wow- you wouldn't give Alexei Yagudin the "it" factor! I'm so surprised! I've never heard ofanybody (except fervent Plushenko fans) not believing that Alexei has the "it" factor! :laugh:

Mathman · May 23, 2009

Yukina Ota had "it" but never became a champion.

Chock and Zeurlein may get "it."

dancingqueen · May 23, 2009

I’ve never been a big fan of Yagudin’s skating , but when I first saw him, I thought he has charisma and the air changed when he appeared on the ice.
Plushenko and Yagudin both I felt there is something special air around them.

The fist time I saw Plushenko, just “ Wow”. He has this aura of an elite skater. And he is one of my top favorite skaters.

I think Michelle Kwan has “ it factor” , although she has never been one of my favorite skaters but I thought she has impact.

On the other hand, I like Lambiel and his skating since 2006 worlds, and he is my second favorite skater. But until that worlds 2006 I had never been impressed much with his skating except for only his speedy headless spin. And when I saw his live skating and also saw him in close distance where there were many other skaters , somehow I didn’t feel he has “it” factor at that time. I may have different impression if I saw his live now.

“It factor” can have many meanings, on ice, depending on the program, off ice and personality, or even not doing anything but already has impact.

For Joubert, I think he has “It factor” but when I first saw him, he was with Plushenko, so somehow the impact was less. Sorry… but I like Joubert, too.

Also I have to add Navka/ Kostomorov in my “ it factor” list. For pair skaters, I didn’t feel anyone has it, even though I liked Totmyanina / Marinin and Shen/ Zhou.

merrybari · May 23, 2009

Observation along with "perfect" programs on the podium.

I remember Dick Button saying - quite often as a matter of fact - that many times competitions are won by the skater that makes the fewest mistakes. I think that is the norm rather than the exception.

I'll add Ryan Bradley to my short list of men with "it!" I think he has some sloppy technique, but there's no arguing he can capture a crowd!

janetfan · May 23, 2009

Mathman said:
Yukina Ota had "it" but never became a champion.

Chock and Zeurlein may get "it."

The consensus seems to be that you don't have to be a champion to have "it."

Also, it is more rare but not impossible to "get it." Basically you either have it or you don't. But there are different ways to look at this and "it" can be meant at different levels (on ice only as opposed to off ice commercial success, etc, etc.).

But it is interesting that you think C & Z have "it" potential. Do you think that with better skating technique they will get it, or through more personality developement?

Actually, 14 year old Mao already had it. But 14 year old Yuna did not. She grew into it as her confidence grew. Mao probably had it by the time she was 7.

An interesting observation was that Alissa has a soft "it", a gentle it like her skating.

evangeline · May 23, 2009

janetfan said:
Also, it is more rare but not impossible to "get it."

I agree; Alexei Yagudin is a good example of this. If you watch his skates when he was still with Mishin, he had, well, the "it" factor of a refrigerator on skates. But when he made the switch to Tarasova, he came to have to the "it" factor in spades. Though in the case of Yagudin, I think it was the combination of both the coaching change and him growing up.

DragonPhoenix · May 23, 2009

I think it is possible to get “it” in the sense of some skaters gradually showing the “ it “ that they always had.

And I think Yukina Ota had that potential. I add her to my list.

And although I didn't feel Michelle Kwan's " it ", she certainly had a big " it " impact on alot of people, at least in the U.S.

But I don’t think skaters ( or anyone ) can get “it”, if they didn‘t already have it in the first place.

With skaters that didn't show it in the beginning, I think what happens is that as a certain amount of confidence grows in a skater, that “ it factor “ ( if they have it ) begins to appear. On the other hand, confidence does not equal “ it factor “. Although it can help it.

But I think that skaters that have that ‘ it factor “, whether it be charisma, aura, or whatever “ it “ is, was always there, even if it was not always on display.

I don’t think it’s something that can be manufactured. IMO

And of course, this is all subjective. Different people have different ideas about who has “ it “ or not.

Also, “ it factors “ can also be deeply affected by cultural differences, country differences.

Although some skaters ( and some people in general ) can transcend those differences.

janetfan · May 23, 2009

DragonPhoenix said:
I think it is possible to get “it” in the sense of some skaters gradually showing the “ it “ that they always had.

And I think Yukina Ota had that potential. I add her to my list.
And although I didn't feel Michelle Kwan's " it ", she certainly had a big " it " impact on alot of people, at least in the U.S.
But I don’t think skaters ( or anyone ) can get “it”, if they didn‘t already have it in the first place.
With skaters that didn't show it in the beginning, I think what happens is that as a certain amount of confidence grows in a skater, that “ it factor “ ( if they have it ) begins to appear. On the other hand, confidence does not equal “ it factor “. Although it can help it.
But I think that skaters that have that ‘ it factor “, whether it be charisma, aura, or whatever “ it “ is, was always there, even if it was not always on display.
I don’t think it’s something that can be manufactured. IMO
And of course, this is all subjective. Different people have different ideas about who has “ it “ or not.
Also, “ it factors “ can also be deeply affected by cultural differences, country differences.
Although some skaters ( and some people in general ) can transcend those differences.

Thanks for that excellent post Dragon. I pretty much agree with you. Perhaps as was said earlier Yagudin and Yuna always had it - but it was not always on display in their formative years.

For me, Michelle always had it. She had it for me when she was only 12 - and she certainly showed me she still has it at this year's Worlds. As a matter of fact Michelle appeared to be glowing.
It can be odd coz for me Sasha has as much or more of "it" on the ice than Michelle does at times. But just as odd - Sasha doesn't have much "it" for me off the ice. Atleast I have never seen it yet.

Mathman · May 23, 2009

janetfan said:
But it is interesting that you think C & Z have "it" potential. Do you think that with better skating technique they will get it, or through more personality developement?

I think ice dancing is different from singles skating in this regard. In singles, a 13-year-old jumping bean like Michelle or Mao can be WOW! Dancers, I think, need more time to grow into their craft (although I might have to make an exception for the young Jamie Silverstein. :rock:

)

Madison Chock’s middle name is La’akea (sacred light from heaven) Te-Lan (one-of-a-kind orchid). I think it takes a little seasoning to grow into all that.

http://www.goldenskate.com/articles/2008/030809.shtml

OT – By the way, Madison’s biography states that she won the International Family Film Festival sceenplay award in 2003 (she was 10.) Considering that the 2004 award went to the creators of Shrek, I am curious about what this award was for. Does anybody know?

szidon · May 23, 2009

feraina said:
More seriously, I think Western and Eastern tastes are a little different. In the East, they often prefer men with delicate features, pale complexion, tender gestures, etc. That's why they especially love Johnny, and also Adam. Whereas in the West, there's this perpetual discussion of whether certain males make figure skating look less masculine to the general public.

A slight generalization, but I do think that the relative amount of "it" factor for the same skater is different in different countries due to cultural reasons, it's not like there's an absolute scale or anything.

I don't think Western and Eastern tastes are hugely different given Yagudin and Joubert are also very popular in Eastern countries. But I agree male skaters with delicate features are better received in Eastern countries. :yes:

feraina said:
As far as ladies go, I think Yu-na and Mao both have the "it" factor, Yu-na has more passion, Mao has more balletic elegance. Yu-na for me is like Stephane Lambiel among men, they may not hit the most elegant, balletic positions, but they skate with such intensity and commitment/belief in their program/choreography (Johnny made some statement like this about Lambiel in an interview, he said he admired Lambiel for that reason). I wish Yu-na would pick better music for this season, though, I liked her programs from 3 seasons ago much better, before she started working with Brian Orser (even though it's obvious that her jumps, skating skills, athleticism have all improved tremendously since then). The way she skates her programs, since Brian Orser, now seems so completely over-practiced to me, like every single gesture, facial expression is completely pre-programmed, and as such takes away from her emotional connection with the program and the audience. But that's just my opinion!

The way skaters executes thier programs is usually planned in detail by a choreographer including positions of the head & hands and facial expression. But few skaters can sustain their original choreography until the end of the season.
FYI, do you remember Yu-na's gesture like brushing her hair after 2nd triple Lutz at Worlds? It's her impromptu gesture, not pre-programmed.

For me skaters with IT factors are

men: Kurt Browning, Yagudin, Plushenko :rock:

ladies: Katarina Witt, O. Baiul, Yamaguchi, Kwan, Yu-na :rock:

pair: G&G

dance: V&M :rock:

Mathman · May 24, 2009

szidon said:
But I agree male skaters with delicate features are better received in Eastern countries.

In the case of China, though, this does not apply to any of the most famous male skaters: Chengjiang Li, Hongbo Zhou, Jian Tong, Han Zhang.

The "It Factor"

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

efreedman

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

DragonPhoenix

merrybari

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

merrybari

NatachaHatawa

Jaana

NatachaHatawa

Mathman

dancingqueen

merrybari

janetfan

Match Penalty

evangeline

DragonPhoenix

janetfan

Match Penalty

Mathman

szidon

Mathman

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