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Thread: Should Weir skip the GP this year?

  1. #76
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    Mathman, I agree with you with respect to the International judging community. His issue lies with the US skating community.

    I don't think that Johnny has an option, given the issues he faced last year. Every competition will have to be statement. Otherwise, there's no possibility of his either being marked appropriately at Nationals or being included on the 2010 Olympic team. I thjnk that the only acceptable (to the US judges/USFSA) reason for bowing out of the Grand Prix would be injury. And even then, I wonder about their ability to divorce themselves from their resentment.
    Last edited by efreedman; 05-27-2009 at 04:30 PM.

  2. #77
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by efreedman View Post
    And even then, I wonder about their ability to divorce themselves from their resentment.
    Why would the USFSA bear resentment against Johnny Weir -- or against any skater, for that matter?

    You try your best. Sometimes you win, sometimes the other guy does.

    Did they think that Johnny was dogging it some of the times when he did not skate so well?

    I have the same problem about Alissa Czisny. Everyone seems to think that she is (or should be) in the USFSA's doghouse because she did not give a good performance at Worlds. Well, true, she didn't. But would that cause the judges to seek revenge by giving her lower marks than she deserves at 2010 nationals?

  3. #78
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Why would the USFSA bear resentment against Johnny Weir -- or against any skater, for that matter?
    I have the same problem about Alissa Czisny. Everyone seems to think that she is (or should be) in the USFSA's doghouse because she did not give a good performance at Worlds. Well, true, she didn't. But would that cause the judges to seek revenge by giving her lower marks than she deserves at 2010 nationals?

    Yes, I believe they will. I am not saying it is fair - but I don't think Alissa will be marked as generously at Nationals this season. It may be subtle, and might not even be necessary as Alissa may botch a few jumps.
    Good luck Alissa - you are a beautiful skater.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by efreedman View Post
    His issue lies with the US skating community.

    I thjnk that the only acceptable (to the US judges/USFSA) reason for bowing out of the Grand Prix would be injury. And even then, I wonder about their ability to divorce themselves from their resentment.
    I agree.

  5. #80
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    Johnny Weir is not Michelle Kwan though. Coming into that Nationals Michelle was a three time World Champion and five time National Champion. Quite a big difference compared to someone who did not even make the World Team last year. Johnny needs the program mileage and experience.

    I am not sure what Johnny needs to do - but I am sure it is not realistic to compare him to Michelle. Maybe Nicole Bobek or even Sasha - but not Michelle. Besides the huge difference in medals they each won, Michelle was the Golden Girl of US Skating and Johnny is the Bad Boy. If there are issues between Johnny and his federation who's fault might that be? "You reap what you sow" and that's the way it goes in life sometimes.
    I really believe US Skating would have given Weir a ticket to Worlds last season if he had pulled out due to illness. I guess we will never know how that might have unfolded. It is not acceptable to compete and then say you are sick. That is not fair to the others. So again, I think it was a case of bad judgement from Weir's camp but he certainly did have bad luck with the timing of his illness. Some have mentioned the Korean Xmas Gala - but I can't come down on a skater for doing a charity event. Many fans, including me, get down on Johnny but he deserves a pass on the Xmas Gala imo. He was doing something nice and he did not get sick on purpose.
    Anyway, I belive this topic was hypothetical - and if he is healthy I am sure Johnny will be at two GP events this season. If he is in good form he may also be at GP Finals.
    Then Nationals and maybe Vancouver. He has the talent - now it is a matter of new programs working out, staying healthy and like any one else - a little luck is always helpful too.

  6. #81
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    The scheduling of the Grand Prix events is different this coming season as well. Will be interesting to see how that factors into decisions. For instance, the final is in Japan. Who will want to make 2 trips to Asia within 2 months? Very tiring.

  7. #82
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    Per Mathman:Why would the USFSA bear resentment against Johnny Weir -- or against any skater, for that matter?

    I believe that they resent his outspoken admiration of all things Russian and his Russian coach. I think that with the exception of ice dancers, there is a prejudice on the part of US judges about having a non-American coach. A friend of mine was sitting immediately in front of a couple of US judges and heard a negative comment from them to that effect.
    Last edited by efreedman; 05-28-2009 at 12:07 PM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by efreedman View Post
    Per Mathman:Why would the USFSA bear resentment against Johnny Weir -- or against any skater, for that matter?

    I believe that they resent his outspoken admiration of all things Russian and his Russian coach. I think that with the exception of ice dancers, there is a prejudice on the part of US judges about having a non-American coach. A friend of mine was sitting immediately in front of a couple of US judges and heard a negative comment from them to that effect.
    I think the USFSA sees him as a choker and as someone who does not live up to his talent. Personally I don't think they should see him this way, but I think they do see him this way. I think the fact that he is a Russophile does not help him either.

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    It doesn't matter if you are a Russophile, Francophile, or died-in-the-wool U.S. patriot, if you pop a triple Axel in your short and do it again in the long you're likely to end up fifth best at U.S. nationals.

  10. #85
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    if you pop a triple Axel in your short and do it again in the long you're likely to end up fifth best at U.S. nationals.
    lol that was the tip of the day!
    and I agree.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by nylynnr View Post
    It doesn't matter if you are a Russophile, Francophile, or died-in-the-wool U.S. patriot, if you pop a triple Axel in your short and do it again in the long you're likely to end up fifth best at U.S. nationals.
    You're right, Nylynnr. But I still think the USFSA has a more negative opinion of Johnny Weir than he deserves. I wish he would put it all together and show them, but his time for that is running out.

  12. #87
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    I doubt that the judges hold down his scores domestically on purpose because they don't like him or because they were "told to score him low" by TPTB. I heard from people who were in/near the judges room at Nationals in 08 that they were surprised that Weir didn't win overall because they thought they had scored him high enough and some were disappointed in the result and they had been on the panel. I know this is just hearsay, but still, even if there is a kernel of truth to it, I think that blows away the theory that TPTB just don't like him...

    As it is, he has to skate cleanly at Nationals, especially if he's not going to at least rotate a quad, otherwise he will stay home. You can say the same thing for Lysacek and Abbott, so it's not like I'm singling Johnny out.

  13. #88
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by efreedman View Post
    I believe that they resent his [Weir's] outspoken admiration of all things Russian and his Russian coach. I think that with the exception of ice dancers, there is a prejudice on the part of US judges about having a non-American coach. A friend of mine was sitting immediately in front of a couple of US judges and heard a negative comment from them to that effect.
    This is quite strange to me. First, about the coach part, lots of American skaters have been helped by Russian coaches. Mrs. Tarasova worked briefly with Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, and Evan Lysacek, as well as with Johnny. Shpilband and Zoueva and Linichuk and Karponosov coach the top U.S. dance teams, without any apparent ill will on the part of the USFSA.

    As for admiring all things Russian, I am dismayed at the thought that any organization run by adults for the benefit of young people would promulgate xenophobia. Lots of young people develop an intense interest in foreign cultures, or in a particular one. They are intrigued by the exotic fashion, cuisine, and customs. They like to hang out with people from other countries and make new friends. If they are serious about it, maybe they become motivated to study the history, language, and contribution to the arts, of the country that has piqued their interest.

    How can this be anything but good?
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-29-2009 at 11:47 AM.

  14. #89
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    Sometimes I think it's quite easy and glib to say or write, "The USFS doesn't like a certain skater" or "USFS thinks this" or "USFS thinks that." It's a large country and USFS is a big, mostly volunteer organization. It's far from monolithic. There are regions, clubs, etc. and judges and officials from all over.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by nylynnr View Post
    It doesn't matter if you are a Russophile, Francophile, or died-in-the-wool U.S. patriot, if you pop a triple Axel in your short and do it again in the long you're likely to end up fifth best at U.S. nationals.
    Weir also seems to have a general tendency not to do all his jumps in the freeskate, what ever the competition may be.

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