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Thread: Should Weir skip the GP this year?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    If one clicks on the USFS website one does not see a pic of Johnny.True. But I do not think that picture of several skaters is high tech promoting. Who goes to that website except fans of skating and they have a myriad of interests. If Johnny is a fan, his absence will not make sense to them, True. but neither is Mroz, Oi, or Rippon.. Evan's there in an ad for icenetwork only with B&A. Where would you see promotion of Johnny or anyone else for that matter other than in Lake Placid or Spokane.

    Figure Skating is just not high selebrity news unless one wins an Oly.
    Nobody said anything about the USFS site not having a picture of Johnny - they picture the current National Champions for the year of their reign.

    People were talking about USFS's official site for the 2007 National Championships, as well as their print brochures for that event. Johnny was the three-time and reigning Champion going into that Nationals, but USFS put Evan Lysacek on the cover of the brochure, with large photos of every other top US skater inside except Johnny - it was as if he did not exist. Sasha Cohen, Timothy Goebel and others who were not even competing at Nationals were there. On the website, they had flashing, full-page photos of every top US skater except Johnny. There was a fan outcry and email campaign about it (and it was reported by several newspapers and news web sites, including the New York Daily News), so USFS finally added a very small thumbnail photo of Johnny to the website, but it was too late to do anything about the brochures.

    For those who insist that USFS shows no favoritism of Lysacek over Weir, I wonder how they justify that incident. When it comes to the way they report Weir's wins compared to Lysacek's, maybe people can claim that is subjective (although I stand by my contention that they are biased - it may be "accurate" that Johnny did not knock people out of their seats with his World bronze performance, but neither did Lysacek with his, and his bronze was reported on the USFS in far more superlative terms such as "glorious", lol). But it is harder to claim there is no bias when they are leaving their reigning champion off of promotional materials for Nationals when prominently depicting his top rival.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by pippa View Post
    Johnny did NOT "self-proclaim" himself a "Pop King on Ice", nor did he make the documentary about himself, lol. The term is "pop star on ice", and he was called that by fashion designer Richie Rich of Heatherette. The filmmakers liked it and decided to call their film that - Johnny had nothing to do with choosing the title. They chose Johnny as the subject of their documentary after originally planning to do a film about all of figure skating but becoming frustrated because they couldn't get any of the other US skaters to be "real" in front of the cameras and not just give pat, USFS-approved statements in response to every question.

    Janet, you keep talking about Johnny's "tasteless" and "inappropriate" behavior and insisting that is why USFS has a problem with him. For goodness' sake, in any other sport Johnny's behavior would be considered so mild as to be not even worth commenting on. He isn't storming into the stands and brawling with fans or running dogfighting rings or getting arrested for carrying illegal weapons or drunk driving, you know - all he dared to do was speak a few words that were not pre-written for him by the USFS publicity team (really, how many male skaters have to tell the exact same story about how they REALLY wanted to be hockey players and are SO embarrassed about all the sequins in figure skating and hope nobody thinks they're gay because all they want is to bring masculinity to figure skating ! before people figure out how pre-packaged that sounds?).

    God forbid USFS ever had to deal with a fraction of what other sports deal with as far as their athlete's behavior - for all of their insistence that they want figure skating to be seen like other sports are, they are still stuck in a 1950s, outdated mindset when it comes to wanting all of their skaters to fit a single, bland mold.
    Thanks, that is a very good response. I agree with alot of what you are saying. Sorry about the "Pop King" goof - maybe I had jacko on my mind as the "self proclaimed "King of Pop." BTW, as a skating fan I will watch "Pop Star On Ice" and I am sure I will find parts of it entertaining and informative. A few parts may annoy me but that would make it like most films I watch.
    I have pointed out here before that Dennis Rodman, an NBA player on championship teams was way more outragious than Johnny.
    As to Weir's behavior, it doesn't bother me and I typically like colorful, outspoken ahtletes as they can occassionally bring excitement to an otherwise dull game/event.
    But I am not part of the US Skating establishment. I do see how they could have problems making him a poster boy for US Skating. For all I know - MK could be a real PITA. A total primadona, not nice to her fellow skaters, etc, etc. But even if that were true, I could see how MK was the face of US Skating because of the way she carried herself on and off the ice. Sometimes it is about making a few compromises. Sometimes a "Peter Pan" complex loses it's charm when you are closer to 30 than 12.
    I think Johnny has done stuff on his own terms and if he, or his fans are not happy by the way US Skating has treated him then what can I say about it?
    I can only say I think he knows what he is doing and my hunch is he enjoys his "bad boy" image and wouldn't trade it for a WC Gold medal. An OGM might be different coz whatever one might say about Weir, I don't think stupid comes to mind.
    Anyway, I am just here questioning these "attacks" on US Skating which I find unrealistic and without a whole lot of merit regarding Weir's treatment.

  3. #123
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    First of all, janetfan, dear, you have spent more time in Johnny threads than his most ardent fans put together. If you hate him so much, maybe it's time to take a deep breath and step away for a while. Your posts are starting to sound hysterical.

    Second point: USFSA were on Weir's *** way before he ever held his first press conference. They were calling him too girly, and harping on his music and costumes before he ever had a chance to say or do anything "controversial". They were calling him "Johnny Weird" when he was still a kid.

    Last point: If you actually think that anything Weir said or did is "bad boy" or "inappropriate", I feel sorry for you. How do you walk down the street without getting offended? Do you ever go out to public places? Do you watch TV? I've heard edgier jokes on a middle school playground.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by psycho View Post
    First of all, janetfan, dear, you have spent more time in Johnny threads than his most ardent fans put together. If you hate him so much, maybe it's time to take a deep breath and step away for a while. Your posts are starting to sound hysterical.

    Second point: USFSA were on Weir's *** way before he ever held his first press conference. They were calling him too girly, and harping on his music and costumes before he ever had a chance to say or do anything "controversial". They were calling him "Johnny Weird" when he was still a kid.

    Last point: If you actually think that anything Weir said or did is "bad boy" or "inappropriate", I feel sorry for you. How do you walk down the street without getting offended? Do you ever go out to public places? Do you watch TV? I've heard edgier jokes on a middle school playground.

    I think I disagree with you but your comments are interesting. I don't hate Weir and actually am pulling for him to make it to Vancouver. I also hope he is judged fairly at Natls, or at any other competition. I don't feel hysterical and hope my comments have not made you feel that way either. I am also not the one going by the name "pyscho"

    I grew up about 30 minutes from Johnny and have followed his career since he was just coming to Natl prominence. If even part of what you said is true about the way US Skating has treated Johnny then I think it was wrong of them. But having seen him for so many years now I haven't ever heard that coming from the Federation. Maybe I missed it but being from so close to his hometown I have read many articles about him, especially from the beginning of his career The "Weird " has been used so many times by so many people - I am sure I have used it myself. I don't know conclusively that it was first, and most frequently used by US Skating officials.

    I go out all the time - everyday as a matter of fact. Having worked in NYC and being from Philly I think I have heard enough. I said I can see how US Skating would not want Johnny as the face of the federation. I am sorry if you disagree with them or with me. Just as Johnny is defended for his right to express himself so do I feel the same right. You are free to criticize my commenst and to criticize me. Whatever helps you get your point across is OK with me.
    I choose to defend US Skating. If I post alot on this subject it is because there are so many attacks from Weir fans against US skating. It is not personal with me.
    I hope Johnny has a great season, stays healthy and makes the right choices.

  5. #125
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    In my neck of the woods, it's just plain Johnny WHO? and Evan WHO? regardless of who is getting more publicity. It's not really important, imo. I happen to prefer Johnny over Evan, but not Stephane. The only announcement I would like to read is that Lambiel will skate another comp. I really don't care who wins since I am not geared to a nationality or past performances.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I have pointed out here before that Dennis Rodman, an NBA player on championship teams was way more outragious than Johnny.
    Off topic, but Dennis Rodman has suffered from very serious mental health challenges all his life.
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-30-2009 at 07:59 PM.

  7. #127
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    considering all of the "bad press" Johnny got from NBC at the 06 games (he was the American Hero after the SP and they dumped him quick after the long), I can understand the promoters of the US National event in 2007 not using him as their poster boy. Sasha Cohen won a medal at those games, so even though she wasn't going to be at that event it was a way to show the 'past' (the very present past lol)... Timothy was the last US man to hit the olympic podium, so again I understand the choice... Evan had a crappy short program but was the highest ranking American in that event in 2006, and he rallied back to nearly make the podium...

    Does the USFSA favor Evan? Probably. He plays their game better. He says what he's supposed to say, goes out and skates, and comes away pretty successful. Yeah, he has his weak moments and his stupid moments (they all do) but the press seems easier to forgive him than they do Johnny... so Evan benefits a lot from that as well... USFSA has to market to an American audience... they like their skaters clean cut and just out there "skating their best."

    mind you understand does not mean I may agree with the decision, but I understand it.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    In my neck of the woods, it's just plain Johnny WHO? and Evan WHO? regardless of who is getting more publicity. .
    That's probably true in most of the US. I don't know a single person (except for the figure skating fans I have met online, of course) who could name any of the currently competing skaters. Sometimes when I mention that I am a skating fan, someone will ask me who my favorite skaters are, but they just look at me blankly when I give names like Stephane Lambiel, Johnny Weir, Yu-Na Kim, or Adam Rippon. Sigh.

  9. #129
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    ^^^
    i can understand a fan saying that Johnny does not get the publicity of USFS, but I have not read anything about the "bad press". If it was NBC's verbal statements, I missed it. I thought he got news coverage well in Torino.

  10. #130
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    he got thrashed in a lot of articles after his "loss" in Torino...

    as well as before his SP when he wore his Russian warm up suit.. of all the times to cheer on the other guy... *facepalm*

    NBC played him against Evan as Evan was the All-American linebacker who just goes out and does his job and doesn't do anything off the ice to call attention to himself. Johnny is the bad boy artist who says stupidly un-pc things (lest we forget his cocaine comment, which IIRC, was at US nationals 06) and wears high heels (remember we had "Weir Eye from the Skate Guy" as a special segment on USA's "Olympic Ice"). Johnny landed a two part interview inbetween the SP and the LP (again, I could be wrong and this was BEFORE the SP) I don't recall Evan getting the same (all we got of Evan before the LP was him looked completely broken sitting next to his mom putting his head on her shoulder high up in the stands watching a practice session).


    After Johnny's loss American papers wondered if Johnny's issue was not nerves but that he just didn't care, and that he wasn't American enough (they didn't say those words, they implied it) and cited his love of all things Russia.

    Soon after the death threats and other horrible letters were reportedly making their way to Johnny's mail and in boxes...
    Last edited by Tonichelle; 05-30-2009 at 08:04 PM.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    considering all of the "bad press" Johnny got from NBC at the 06 games (he was the American Hero after the SP and they dumped him quick after the long), I can understand the promoters of the US National event in 2007 not using him as their poster boy. Sasha Cohen won a medal at those games, so even though she wasn't going to be at that event it was a way to show the 'past' (the very present past lol)... Timothy was the last US man to hit the olympic podium, so again I understand the choice... Evan had a crappy short program but was the highest ranking American in that event in 2006, and he rallied back to nearly make the podium...
    Does the USFSA favor Evan? Probably. He plays their game better. He says what he's supposed to say, goes out and skates, and comes away pretty successful. Yeah, he has his weak moments and his stupid moments (they all do) but the press seems easier to forgive him than they do Johnny... so Evan benefits a lot from that as well... USFSA has to market to an American audience... they like their skaters clean cut and just out there "skating their best."

    mind you understand does not mean I may agree with the decision, but I understand it.

    Thanks Toni. I agree with your comments I particularly appreciate your last statement. It may be hard to believe for some but I am slowly coming back to my pre-Torino feelings about Johnny. I was a fan then but definitely was put off - not by NBC - but by Johnny's own comments.
    To be honest I hope he has the best two skates of his career at Natls and in Vancouver. I would like to see him go out on a high note should he retire from competitions after this season.
    I can also say this - if he gets to Vancouver and for whatever reasons he is not in the mood to skate I will be ticked off. We do have other skaters that are willing to give their best in Vancouver. It is not about medals for me but about fighting the good fight, giving it all you have, and living up to the Olympic ideal. Maybe that is not the top priority for a selection committee - but what could be more important when you are representing your country at an Olympic Festival?
    Last edited by janetfan; 05-30-2009 at 08:21 PM.

  12. #132
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    !!

    What I don't understand is the comments about how Johnny deserves to face bias against him from USFS because they are "selling" figure skating and "America" doesn't want a figure skater who doesn't fit the cookie-cutter mold they have laid out and who speaks his mind.

    If it were true that Americans are just so very shocked by Johnny and can't possibly accept him, then how is it that he has so many fans? Like it or not, his fan clubs are a whole lot more crowded than Evan's, and Evan sticks to that approved mold. Every time I watch a skating competition on TV, the stands are filled with more signs for Johnny than for any other skater (sometimes even at competitions he isn't in!) and the crowds seem to scream awfully loud for him.

    It seems to me that "America" likes Johnny just fine.

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    Back to topic! It's a moot point whether or not Johnny should skip the Grand Prix. He'll be skating in Russia and at NHK!!

  14. #134
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    The two events he wanted, but two tough competitions for him. The road to the Grand Prix Finale won't be easy.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by merrybari View Post
    Back to topic! It's a moot point whether or not Johnny should skip the Grand Prix. He'll be skating in Russia and at NHK!!
    being named and actually skating are two completely different things. The summer has just started, it's quite a ways till October.

    What I don't understand is the comments about how Johnny deserves to face bias against him from USFS because they are "selling" figure skating and "America" doesn't want a figure skater who doesn't fit the cookie-cutter mold they have laid out and who speaks his mind.
    I certainly didn't say anything like that, so I hope you are not confused with my comments above. I was merely stating how I remembered the post Torino debacle. Prior to Johnny's decline in skating after the games (with him hitting rock bottom at nationals 2007) I would be right along with those that said "hey, he said it - now he has to live with it" and I still stand by that. While he was being so blunt and honest (which is what so many people loved) I found him to come off as just another one of the twit males from my generation. Heck *I* say boneheaded things and get called on it, so Johnny should be no different. He was upset that the USFSA called him on his cocaine comment - well, tough noogies. To pretend like you didn't see it coming is just annoying.

    That being said, the media was kicking him while he was not only down but practically dead. It was blown completely out of proportion and threw fans back into what seemed to have been a calming of the storm between the two groups. Both Evan and Johnny have fiercely loyal fans, I've seen them get at it both online and in the Arena, that's sports. I give both men credit, they get people talking...


    Evan isn't the prince with words, either. By the time Torino rolled around I was getting very sick of their negative banter in the press. 2007 wasn't any better, IIRC.

    Anyway I'm rambling. Basically I prefer the Johnny Weir of today, 2006 & 2007 taught him humility and how better to work the press. Evan's coming around too... the boys are growing up.

    I hope that both make it to Vancouver and not just as spectators. I'd love to see them both on the podium in any order (though if Evan won the whole thing I'd be over the moon ha ha). I think it'd be a great way to close their competitive careers (both are stating this is it for them... or did last year) and their rivalry.
    Last edited by Tonichelle; 05-30-2009 at 11:32 PM.

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