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Thread: Grand Prix 2009 Entries are up!

  1. #181
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    ChuckM, can a country fill one of their TBA home slots with a skater from another country?

    For instance, Cup of China lists two TBA's reserved for Chinese skaters (ladies). Could they invite someone else instead -- Michelle, for example?

  2. #182
    Tanguera feraina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ChuckM, can a country fill one of their TBA home slots with a skater from another country?

    For instance, Cup of China lists two TBA's reserved for Chinese skaters (ladies). Could they invite someone else instead -- Michelle, for example?
    Oh! What a thought. I bet China would love to! But multiple countries have TBA's in ladies. TEB, for instance. What if TEB invites Michelle?! Oh, man! I will have to find an excuse to fly to Paris, then. Caroline, Mao, Yu-na, MICHELLE, Sasha, Yukari, and Carolina! It'll be better than the Olympics for sure, if only Michelle, Sasha, and Caroline can't all go to the Olympics.

    Oh, but wait, all the events have 3 US ladies already. Is any event allowed to invite a 4th lady from the same country? Doesn't that break some ISU rule? On the other hand, they broke whatever rules they needed for Cohen and S/Z to have 2 events, so probably they'll find a way for Michelle, too, if she decides to come back.

    I somehow suspect that she really will make an announcement to comeback. Or at least she really wants to come back, and is training hard, but doesn't know if she can get her skating back up to a competitive level, or if her body will hold up through a gruelling Olympic season after so many years away. Now, even if she does announce a comeback, I don't know if she can actually make it to the Olympics. It's a delightful thought to see her skate again. But I'm not looking forward to her comeback potentially being a disappointment, either due to injury or poor results. Her tears at the last Olympics broke my heart.

  3. #183
    Down With It
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    well, she already failed in 2006, I can't see why it would be much different in 2010. As for Cohen, she's in the same boat. I don't see either one either in prime condition or healthy enough to go.

  4. #184
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    Both TEB and CoC have unfilled Ladies host spots, and yes, they can fill those spots with skaters from another federation. But they cannot have more than 3 skaters from a single federation on their roster.

    TEB could invite a third Japanese skater (say, Takeda), or a second Finnish skater (Vahamaa) but not an American, because there are already 3 US ladies at the event.

    CoC could invite a skater from Canada, Japan, Finland, Russia, or any other federation except the US, because there are already 3 US ladies at the event

  5. #185
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    well, she already failed in 2006,...
    Failed to do what? Have the hip operation that she needed since 2004?

  6. #186
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    I don't see her coming back by her own choice. She's a legend and has moved on.

    But! If I am wrong, how late is it for her to get to Pacific Sectionals for a warm-up before US Nats. Why spill it out with Mao and YuNa? It's the US Nats that is heavily weighted for selection of the Olys.

  7. #187
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Both TEB and CoC have unfilled Ladies host spots, and yes, they can fill those spots with skaters from another federation. But they cannot have more than 3 skaters from a single federation on their roster.

    TEB could invite a third Japanese skater (say, Takeda), or a second Finnish skater (Vahamaa) but not an American, because there are already 3 US ladies at the event.

    CoC could invite a skater from Canada, Japan, Finland, Russia, or any other federation except the US, because there are already 3 US ladies at the event
    Why not have more than 3 skaters from one country? We've learned that Rules can be broken when necessary.

  8. #188
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    or maybe have twelve from same country and call it nationals?

  9. #189
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Why not have more than 3 skaters from one country? We've learned that Rules can be broken when necessary.
    Now that I understand the rules better, I don't think any rule was broken in allowing Sasha and Shen and Zhao to get a second event.

    The rules list 8 ways that a skater can be eligible to be selected for the pool. The first 7 ways are things like top 12 at worlds, top 75 in personal best, etc.

    The 8th way allowed by the rules is for the ISU Committee to OK it. Sasha and the Chinese pairs got in by rule number 8.

    But rule number 10 says flat out, no more that three can be invited from any one country.

    The rules do give the Committee the power to send Sasha to a second event, but they do not give the Committee the power to override rule number 10.

    Edited to add: On the other hand, I don't see any rule that would prevent USFS from leaning on Bebe and making her withdraw to open up a spot for a different American lady.
    Last edited by Mathman; 06-04-2009 at 04:40 PM.

  10. #190
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Now that I understand the rules better, I don't think any rule was broken in allowing Sasha and Shen and Zhao to get a second event.
    Isn't that a revised Rule? There was so much talk that Olympics results or the bygone Worlds had anything to do with the present GPs?

    The 8th way allowed by the rules is for the ISU Committee to OK it. Sasha and the Chinese pairs got in by rule number 8.
    I think that was the hasty revision. Anyway it's clear now so if I say the Olys has influence in 2013 GPs, I wont be far from wrong. The exceptions were for Oly past medalists.

    But rule number 10 says flat out, no more that three can be invited from any one country.
    That can be a hasty revision, too. There are so many TBAs in those Grids.

    The rules do give the Committee the power to send Sasha to a second event, but they do not give the Committee the power to override rule number 10.
    Leave out Sasha's name and does it still apply?

    Edited to add: On the other hand, I don't see any rule that would prevent USFS from leaning on Bebe and making her withdraw to open up a spot for a different American lady.
    That would be nice indeed. I'm looking forward to a perfect 3F this season.
    Last edited by Joesitz; 06-04-2009 at 05:23 PM.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Why not have more than 3 skaters from one country? We've learned that Rules can be broken when necessary.
    Because that would be grossly unfair to skaters from federations that aren't also GP hosts. When you really think about it, it sure wouldn't be all that fair to the skaters from the federation if four or more could compete at the same event. If Cohen, Zhang, Flatt and Nagasu were all at the same competition, then at least two of them would automatically be eliminated from any chance at the GPF.

    Almost no federation would even want such a 'bending' of the rules.

  12. #192
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Edited to add: On the other hand, I don't see any rule that would prevent USFS from leaning on Bebe and making her withdraw to open up a spot for a different American lady.
    I hope this is a joke. That would be mean! Anyway, I'm hoping Bebe is TBA!

  13. #193
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Isn't that a revised Rule?
    No. Here is it in the previous year's announcement -- exactly the same wording as this year. (Section 2.2 f in 2008/09, 2.2 h in 2009/10.)

    http://isu.sportcentric.net/db/files/serve.php?id=956

    There was so much talk that Olympics results or the bygone Worlds had anything to do with the present GPs?
    What confused everybody at first was the new section, 2.2 g of the 2009/10 announcement, about skaters returning from injury, like Takahashi.

    Sasha, Shen and Zhao and Plushenko (if he had sought a second invitation) do not fall under this new rule g, but rather under the old rule, h.

    Leave out Sasha's name and does it still apply?
    Yes, I think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver
    I hope this is a joke. That would be mean!
    I am just trying to understand what the rules allow and don't allow. I am not saying anything about what would be a good or a bad thing to do.
    Last edited by Mathman; 06-04-2009 at 09:00 PM.

  14. #194
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    oh mr mathman, why you confuseme ?
    since i first read the rules when posted here, I understood that the retired skaters fall in the category h ( i think it is h, the one that says more or less they can invite anyone they want apart from the previous categories ) .. Unless coming from injured. Then there was the whole speculation that they will use injuries to be in category of takahashi. Now how plushenko and sasha transferred in g? I see them still in last one.

  15. #195
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    ^ Yes, that is what I was trying to say. I edited my post to make it more clear.

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