06-01-2009, 04:13 PM
for you people trying to figure out nationals --don't it is too early besides
Caroline Zhang has to compete against Mao, Yu-na in France and Joannie Laura in Canada,
Rachel just has to compete against Yu-Na in both of her events, outside of Sasha she is the next big one, So she got one of the easiest assignments
Caroline as usually 3year in a row got the hardest. of the Us. She has a shot at 2nd in Canada, but only 3rd in France unless Mao/yu-na screws up.
since Sasha GOT What she Wanted. they will PROBABLY HOLD her up Despite mistakes. So caroline will be lucky to get 3rd
i see Sasha the Silver medalist not world title got 2nd events , Evgengy reigning Olympic Champion and world titliest got 1. Go figure.
If that doesn't stated cheating and politicaling behind the scenes I don't know what does and the fact Caroline Got hard events.
Alissa, Ashley, Sasha Rachel even MIrai got easier events.
Caroline Zhang got robbed again. That is all i am going to say. You guys wanted sasha back, deal with the brouhaha, cheating and politiciking all the way through the olympics,
People think bad news is good no it isn't if you are trying to improve the image and correct the cheating image of the sport like figure skating has.
Because the figure skating community doesn't want it change.
They still think bad news is good, it isn't not anymore . It hurts.
06-01-2009, 04:34 PM
But what can be done to improve now? All I can do is not going SA this year:( And I will try to start using facebook to cheer up Caroline (just found out from a poster here that she has one) She needs all the encouragement and support now. Fairly4, cheer up a little! I believe what goes around comes around eventually.
Originally Posted by fairly4
06-01-2009, 04:52 PM
You mean if she doesn't make it to GPF, doesn't win National's, and doesn't get to go the Olympics or World's (even if she has the 5th or 6th best season's scores, as she has done the last two seasons), then it will make her more likely to stick around the next Olympic cycle? Like it was with Michelle Kwan when she didn't get her OGM? Well, yup, that will probably be the case. I just hope that she doesn't end up like Michelle, doing a little worse and falling a little farther away from her dream every Olympic cycle.
Originally Posted by gocaroline
(As for National's being easy after the GP circuit, well she didn't get any break after having a stellar first senior GP season, and was left off the World's team largely due to placing 5th at her first GP last season, so why should she get any better treatment if she places 4th or 5th at TEB this season?)
By the way, I don't think USFSA purposely gave her the hardest GP's on purpose, but it is the case that they didn't make her life easier by picking her for SA, and left her out to fend for herself. And she was very unlucky to be picked by TEB.
Sorry to be so gloomy, but this GP layout is a disaster for her, and as a devoted Caroline fan, I'm preparing myself early not to be disappointed with whatever the outcome. With Caroline herself, I will be happy just as long as she skates her best.
As for whoever mentioned her skating for another federation, as a high-profile US skater with international medals, USFSA could easily refuse to release her for many years, to make sure that not only she can't skate this Olympics, but not pose a threat at the next Olympics. I don't remember the exact rules, but I remember cases of skaters not being released for many years, and they weren't as successful as OO. Ironically, I think USFSA might value her more in absence.
06-01-2009, 05:00 PM
Feriana, what I mean and I hope is she will win the National and get the ticket to Olympic next year I am just thinking after TEB, she may feel so much less pressure when it comes to National and do great there. I will be sooooooooooooooo dissopointed if she couldn't go next Feburary.
06-01-2009, 05:16 PM
What threw a monkey wrench into the selection procedure was that Asada did not make the top three at Worlds. This means that somebody has to skate against both Asada AND one of the Worlds medalists.
The reason TEB is so tough for Caroline is that she has to face both Kim AND Asada. Likewise, the skaters who got assigned to the Russian event (for instance Alissa, Kimmie and Ashley) have to go up against BOTH Mao and Miki.
At the other four events, skaters only have to face ONE of the top three skaters, and then either Rachael or Laura Lepisto from the 4-6 group.
If the skater in question IS Rachael, then she only has to face one of the top three and no one from 4-6. That is why Rachael's assignment is easier than some of the others'. You could look at it as the reward that she earned by finishing in the top six at Worlds.
06-01-2009, 06:16 PM
I noticed that too. Poor girl, and she just had her sweet sixteen..
Originally Posted by cornell08
Yeah, me too. Even though I know it's probably not likely, I still can't help but hope...
Originally Posted by feraina
I've often thought about her switching federations... I'm sure China would love to have her (and USFSA would see what they're missing) but I didn't know that she had to actually be released by USFSA... How does this work exactly?
06-01-2009, 07:23 PM
Maybe US fed determined gave her up or something. They can't be harsher than this.. Poor Caroline..
06-01-2009, 07:38 PM
For heaven's sake, Caroline Zhang just turned 16. Her skating career is just in its infancy. She will only be 20 for Sochi, and by then she should be a polished skater with a real shot at the podium.
As other posters have pointed out, Rachael got off 'easy' in the GP because she is a seeded skater and never has to face more than one other seed at her two events. And she is a seeded skater because she finished 5th at Worlds. The USFS obviously picked her as one of the seeds for SA, and had very little say as to where her second assignment would be.
The USFS did not pick Caroline for SA because they wanted both Caroline and Rachael to have a shot at making the GPF. Unfortunately, the USFS cannot control how the other federations issue invitations. Caroline just got unlucky with her assignments, but there is no evidence that USFS 'doesn't like' her.
Caroline needs to focus on skating the best she can in the GP, and finishing as high as possible at US Nationals. If she doesn't make it to Vancouver, she will likely get to skate at Worlds 2010, and become a seeded skater for the 2010-2011 season.
06-01-2009, 08:22 PM
I think it is a big mistake for skaters to bank on what they are going to do four years from now. They might be out of the sport by then -- or another sixteen-year-old might have shouldered them aside.
Originally Posted by chuckm
Today's the day!
Last edited by Mathman; 06-01-2009 at 11:22 PM.
06-01-2009, 09:55 PM
i found out something interesting, i don't know if it happened before because I didn't look into it.
But the 6 countries that went to the World Team Last Year got most of the spots.
(I am including the TBA in it as of this time in June , it might change by August and when the Grand prix series start).
For example of the 72 spots for women,
The US claimed 18, Canada claimed 7, Japan, 11 , Russia 4, China 4 , France 4 for a total of 48 spots which left 24 spots over which Finland got 6.
For the 72 spots of Men
The US claimed 16, Canada claimed 11, Japan claimed 9, Russia claimed 7, China 5, and France 8 for a total of 56 which left 16 spots for the other countries .
For the 48 spots of Pairs
The US claimed 10, Canada 10, Japan 1, Russia 9, China 8, France 4 which totaled 42 spots which left only 6 spots for the other countries and their went to
Germany, Great Britian, Ukraine and Estonia.
For the 60 spots of Dance
The US claimed 13, Canada 8, Japan 1, Russia 11, China 3 and France 7 which totaled to 43 spots which left 17 spots open for the other countries
which Italy got 4,
As I stated earlier this includes the TBA and I didn't break it down to how many specific skater 9 girl etc. I just did the open spots for the countries and counted them. I found it interesting that the bulk of the spots went to the countries who went to the World Team and the US snagged the most.
It went US took 57 spots of the four disciplines
Canada took 36 spots of the four disciplines.
Russia took 31 spots of the four disciplines.
France took 23 spots of the four disciplines
Japan took 22 spots of the four disciplines.
China took 20 spots of the four disciplines.
the next 3 highest were Italy with 8 spots of the four displines
Germany with 7 spots of the four displines.
Czechklovia with 6 spots with only spots in men and dance
Finland with 6 spots all of them in girls,.
I just find this interesting that is all.
06-01-2009, 10:01 PM
Those 6 countries that competed at the WTT are also the host countries of the 6 GPs and pay the bulk of the costs for holding the events. I haven't done the math, but I'm sure the USA had the most guaranteed spots in the 4 disciplines according to the ISU's GP selection guidelines.
Originally Posted by fairly4
06-01-2009, 10:08 PM
Rooting for the divas with Kwanford
Poor Caroline! She's only 16, but she has no future in the sport.
Originally Posted by Mathman
(It would be interesting to compare the Soviet and Chinese systems, where baby athletes were plucked out of their cradles and trained with a very long view. Overall those systems got pretty good results, no?)
06-01-2009, 10:42 PM
Hmm, well, do you mean the successful Chinese ladies' skating team, or the Chinese ladies' gymnastics team that's filled with mature ladies trained with a very long view?
Originally Posted by Spun Silver
06-01-2009, 10:42 PM
My opinion - I really don't get all the doom & gloom - have faith.
The GP hasn't even officially started yet, and all these questionable scenarios when no one even knows how each will skate, at least not until the first competition of the season. And not even then, as anything can happen, good or bad, it's just the way it goes, that's life.
That said, I believe ALL skaters should have as much tough competition as possible ~ face the best of the best right off the bat, no chickening out, do or die ~ it will only make them stronger, push them, make them work harder on their weak spots. In order to defeat the best you have to be the best. Sooner or later they all have to meet, thus better to meet sooner versus later.
I recall the Grand Prix season before the 2002 Olympics, and how Sarah Hughes was virtually written off, but that didn't stop her from medalling at each assignment, finally culminating in her *first* win against the best of the best (aka Kwan & Slutskaya) at Skate Canada. From then on she made the GPF, finishing with a respectable third place, nicely followed up by another hard-fought third place finish at Nationals, securing her place on the Olympic Team. Each assignment only made her tougher/stronger, pushed her to skate all out, throwing in the most difficult of elements that she knew she needed in order to defeat the top 2.
I see the same scenario now -- ALL skaters are gunning against the top 2 (aka Yuna Kim & Mao Asada) -- so it is only fitting that they get the honor to compete against them, rightfully so. If one is chosen by their federation to compete against them, that says something, it says their federation thinks they are good enough to do so. I feel sorry for the ones that were *not* given that type of consideration/honor. But then again, it could push them as well, hmm...
06-01-2009, 11:16 PM
Rooting for the divas with Kwanford
Hee-hee. I was actually thinking of that secret Chinese armory deep in the Mongolian highlands where they hide all their international medals in golf, table tennis, and pairs skating.
Originally Posted by feraina
But a shout-out to Yan Liu and the mini-gymnasts!