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Thread: Plushenko v. Abbott - Compare and Contrast

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Plushenko v. Abbott - Compare and Contrast

    Both these guys got a gold medal in the GP series but unfortunately, they will not meet in the Finals. But it's pretty certain they will meet in Vancouver next year.

    Their styles of figure skating are, for me, absolute polar. There are other great contestants whose style fall between the 2 opposite polar guys.

    Can you discuss which of the styles of Evgeni (bravuro) or Jeremy (lyrical) will get the most applause given they both skate their best?

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    To me, it depends on whether we view figure skating as sport or performance art.

    If sport, Plushenko wins hands down. If performance art, its Jeremy.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    To me, it depends on whether we view figure skating as sport or performance art.

    If sport, Plushenko wins hands down. If performance art, its Jeremy.
    Appreciate your reply but I was looking more towards a win in the PC only. it could also be that it is difficult to separate from the Technical.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Appreciate your reply but I was looking more towards a win in the PC only. it could also be that it is difficult to separate from the Technical.
    I should also state that this is a preference thread. Both skaters performing at their best. All the Tech is perfect, and nothing to do with scores.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post

    Can you discuss which of the styles of Evgeni (bravuro) or Jeremy (lyrical) will get the most applause given they both skate their best?
    Well....I would say a lot of it depends on where the event is being held. If it's Russia--Evgeni. If it's in the States (and perhaps Canada?), then Jeremy.

    I find that audience appreciation can be extremely partisan....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Both these guys got a gold medal in the GP series but unfortunately, they will not meet in the Finals. But it's pretty certain they will meet in Vancouver next year.

    Their styles of figure skating are, for me, absolute polar. There are other great contestants whose style fall between the 2 opposite polar guys.

    Can you discuss which of the styles of Evgeni (bravuro) or Jeremy (lyrical) will get the most applause given they both skate their best?
    Ah, Joesitz, my old nemesis. Lol, it's honestly good to see you back & healthy, I thought you were dead, glad to see otherwise. Seriously, that's no joke. I hope your stenosis holds up.

    Back to your question, I say look toward the 1994 Olympics between G&G (lyrical) and M&D (bravura) for the answer to your question, that should give you a clue, *but* not everything. That was between two Russians, after all.

    That said, I just want to say that people underestimate Evgeni Plushenko, he honestly is more than just about the jumps. Just go back & look at his old programs (I did & do). In particular I loooooved his Once Upon A Time in America FS that he did when he was only 18 yrs. old. Ahhhh....

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    Plushenko would win the PCS.

    The thing with Jeremy is that at his best, he's still not an outward skater like Plushenko. His command of the ice is different - more about the skating, less about the attitude would be one way of putting it. Plushenko's more aggressive, outward and confident, and I think that would translate to the PCS scores - particularly in presentation, skating skills and interpretation. If the judging was fair, Abbott would win the other two marks: his choreography and transitions are stronger.

    Personally, I'd go with Abbott 7 times out of 10.

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    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Interpretation? That definitely goes to Abbott.

    Plushenko is stronger in terms of the performance/execution mark. He always presents himself as being in control of everything.

    He might be a little stronger in Skating Skills as well, but not by much.

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    The King has arrived - no questions! plushyta's Avatar
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    I do not understand, why is Plushy's "way of interpretation", less valuable than others? Here is talk about the different tastes, or... what?

    We can talk about the quality of its choreography .... but for now - this is not a competition of choreographer - than the skaters


    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    ... Plushenko is stronger in terms of the performance/execution mark. He always presents himself ....
    ... even, he is the "honest"

    In any case - the best actors looking "inside self" a character which acting - see just De Niro, Al Pacino...

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    I don't think it's easy to compare these two. First, Plushenko is the king of the jumps but he is not only that. He can be very dramatic and artistic. Second, Plushenko did not skate his best at Rostelecom. He has focused on his jumps and proved that he is back. I am hoping that he is working on his choreography right now as well.

    Abbott is a lyrical, classical skater. His skating is beautiful and yet he has managed to have a successful quad jump this time. Unfortunately, his quad jump's successful rate is not high so far. He still didn't have a clean LP this time. So it's not easy for him to stay on the top.

    I think Plushenko is a clear winner everywhere. In a sense, I think MM sumed it up. It's an athleticism and artistry combined sport, not a performing art.

    To me, I enjoy Abbott's skating. He can take me to a dreaming world where everything is so beautiful. But Plushenko's skating could grab my heart, make me hold my breath, and keep me on the edge of my seat. Which one I like better? Depends on my mood. Most of the time, I like Plushenko better.
    Last edited by jennylovskt; 11-22-2009 at 10:38 PM.

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    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    I can't imagine Abbott beating Plushenko in a showdown unless Plushenko's hurt or collapses. I think Plushenko will understand that he's up against a bunch of artistes and will find a way to turn on the charm. And that's all it will take for the current quad king to win on PCS.

    OK, I'll admit it. I read the rumors that Evgeny is practicing a 4-3-3 and I'm quaking with dread. And so, IMO, will be everyone who has to face him in February. The only one who I think has a champion's heart like Plushenko's (as well as OGM skills) is Dai, and we don't know yet how far his comeback can go. (But it's looking pretty good, thank God and knock on wood!)
    Last edited by Spun Silver; 11-22-2009 at 10:49 PM.

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    The way I see it, Plushenko is a freaking skating god. Who the hell is Abbott? Some guy that can't make the top ten at worlds.

    And although Plushenko's presentation style of today is not my favourite of all men out there ( and I blame that largely on the stupid system, 6.0 Plushy was creative and arttistic) , he is still interesting to watch and brings a lot of excitement to competition. Abbott is dull as dishwater and a perfect fridgebreak, imho.

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    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psycho View Post
    The way I see it, Plushenko is a freaking skating god. Who the hell is Abbott? Some guy that can't make the top ten at worlds.

    And although Plushenko's presentation style of today is not my favourite of all men out there ( and I blame that largely on the stupid system, 6.0 Plushy was creative and arttistic) , he is still interesting to watch and brings a lot of excitement to competition. Abbott is dull as dishwater and a perfect fridgebreak, imho.
    Could you make that a little clearer? Your point is getting lost in all the tact. :chorus:

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    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    OK, I'll admit it. I read the rumors that Evgeny is practicing a 4-3-3 and I'm quaking with dread. And so, IMO, will be everyone who has to face him in February. The only one who I think has a champion's heart like Plushenko's (as well as OGM skills) is Dai, and we don't know yet how far his comeback can go. (But it's looking pretty good, thank God and knock on wood!)
    I'm not sure what a champion's heart means to you, but to me it implies shining when it truly counts. While I think Takahashi is a marvelous skater, if he has a champion's heart... where are all his championships? He's in his seventh senior season! A skater with that much talent should have a lot more to show for it by now.

    I don't buy that only Plushenko and Takahashi have OGM skills, either. I think there are a bunch of guys who could win in Vancouver on merit, and it will come down to who doesn't get freaked out by those Olympic rings.

    As for the actual subject of this thread: if both Abbott and Plushenko go clean with more or less their planned content, Abbott should, IMO, get higher PCS on TR, CH, and IN. SS could go either way and P&E to Plushenko. I'm referring to Plushenko's current programs, not some of the stuff he did in the past - which would probably merit higher PCS. I'm guessing Plushenko would have a higher base mark, while Jeremy might do better on GOEs. It would really come down to what the judges prefer.

    Can we play this game with other skaters vs. Plushenko?

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    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Can you discuss which of the styles of Evgeni (bravuro) or Jeremy (lyrical) will get the most applause given they both skate their best?
    Two athletes had the skate of their life, I would applause both the same. Why do we have to measure the emotions by the applause? Skaters can generate various feelings to each and every one in the audience while they are competing. It is totally subjective which one you would enjoy more even if they both skated their best ever. It is nice to have two opposite poles, it makes the earth go round.
    Can we play this game with other skaters vs. Plushenko?
    I dont think this is a good idea. Any skater vs only Plushenko implies a certain message. Unless you think Plushenko is the one to beat, which frankly I even dont so far.
    Last edited by seniorita; 11-23-2009 at 03:05 AM.

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