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Thread: Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Why is Brian Orser seen as the second coming in terms of coaching?

    Ant
    I think it's because of the worshipful feeling a lot of folks have towards Yu-Na; a little bit of that pixie dust can't help but rub off on Brian, too.

    Also, Yu-Na is the top female skater in the world right now, has broken all kinds of records, etc. Naturally, Brian is going to be attributed with some of that success, even though he might not have improved Yu-Na's skating that dramatically.

    I will say, though; Yu-Na seems so much more confident since she's been with Brian. I think he has given her a sense of security. Plus, he seems like a very invested coach, too, what with his antics by the boards, etc. I guess that's why most regard him as a coach all troubled skaters should go to.

    In regards to Caroline's coaching change, Brian's irrelevant anyways - there's no way he'll end up being her coach. Although Caroline could teach Yu-Na a thing or two about extension, and Yu-Na, well, there's a whole lot she could teach Caroline, too...

  2. #137
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    Don Laws ("was one of the Americans who help create the ISU Judging System")! Then he will have a full-time job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I just don't understand it. Everyone is quick to jump on Tarasova's "success" in singles pointing out that all her students have been very accomplished technical skaters before going to her. Yuna only moved to Orser once she had her full jump arsenal and IIRC a world medal.


    Ant
    No, Yuna moved to Orser after she won the junior title(2005-06 season). But yes, she already had all the jumps she has now including 3F-3T and excluding 3R.

    She looked fragile and her expression was a bit understated at the time. Now she has strong presence on the ice. I think the credit goes to him or at least his team.

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    Interesting!!! I'm surprised by all the votes for Mr. Nicks though. Caroline already has much of Sasha's, and Naomi's, strengths, aside from a solid 2 axle. I think Caroline needs someone who can work on her basics-speed especially. I know she hasn't been dinged to harshly for her mule kicks in the TES department, but I would imagine non-mule kicks and better height/flow out of jumps should boost the PCS mark. She also skims the ice as she skates-which always bothered me about Sasha, leads to lack of deep edges, power and speed. IIRC, Sasha went to...Faye???...for help in this area pre-Turin, so obviously Nicks isn't the answer here. I remember an article where Nicks promotes spins and flexibility as a start point and we know Caroline excels in these areas.

    I'd be happy if she could go to RA just because of jump help, and especially since she will still be around post-2010. If Michelle doesn't make a comeback, I'd love to see her coaching Caroline!!

  5. #140
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    One has to realize that there are Teaching Coaches, and Master Coaches. I do not know who taught YuNa the various elements when she first started training as a competitive figure skating.

    It was Priscilla Hill who taught Johnny Weir the elements of competitive figure skating including his fabulous edging and flow over the ice, up to his remarkable 3A. She then brought him to TT to polish it all up.)

    Why YuNa chose Orser, I do not know, but he has given her a sense of musicality and showmanship as well as a most promising Oly champ.

    Is he yet a Master Coach? We'll see with Adam Rippon.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    One has to realize that there are Teaching Coaches, and Master Coaches. I do not know who taught YuNa the various elements when she first started training as a competitive figure skating.

    It was Priscilla Hill who taught Johnny Weir the elements of competitive figure skating including his fabulous edging and flow over the ice, up to his remarkable 3A. She then brought him to TT to polish it all up.)
    Why YuNa chose Orser, I do not know, but he has given her a sense of musicality and showmanship as well as a most promising Oly champ.
    Is he yet a Master Coach? We'll see with Adam Rippon.

    Some good points. Orser - besides being known as "Yuna's coach" is supposed to be known for being good at teaching/correcting axle problems.
    I am impressed by how he has handled Yuna. She has made improvements each season with him and her skating at WC this season did receive high praise from many of the most influential and respected voices in skating. A few dissenting voices at GS does not carry the same weight as remarks form Brian B., Michelle, Kristi, Button, Hamilton, ect.
    I agree that Rippon's progress will give us a better insight into Orser's validity as a top coach. If Rippon shows real progress - and lays down two 3A's at Natls next season he will be in the mix for a podium spot.

    As to Caroline - hope it works out well. I think she should have done this last season - maybe sacrificed the season by working on the aspects of her skating that need improvement. She can still do that and begin to focus her goal on 2014.
    As to coaches - it is interesting to think she needs a Russian coach. Exactly how many OGM's and WC's have Russian Ladies won in the long history of figure skating? Can we count them all on one hand ? If we give them credit for success with the Japanese skaters then it is obviously fair to give Orser the same credit for his work with Yuna.
    Last edited by janetfan; 06-10-2009 at 08:09 AM.

  7. #142
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    I have to agree that Orser could be a Tarasova. But even so, so what. A Tarasova ability to help top skaters handle the pressure and live up to their potential should not be devalued.
    No, Yuna moved to Orser after she won the junior title(2005-06 season)
    Not just the Junior title she was Senior Grand Prix Final champ when she went to him. She was struggling I hear all that season with injuries, but still.

    But I do think it's forgotten that Yu-na came to Brian gift wrapped on a silver platter with great technique and championship mettle already. Girl was undefeated at the junior level the year before. She has improved under Orser, in terms of skating skills and artistry. But she would have improved under Carroll, Tarasova, all of them. I'm sure.

    I do think Adam Rippon will tell more of the tale, but I must say I was impressed with how much Rippon had improved at Junior Worlds. He went from someone who was very inconsistent with the 3 axel all season long, to very consistent with it at Junior Worlds and a much improved one. Thats' got to be attributed to Orser.
    Last edited by bekalc; 06-10-2009 at 08:07 AM.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I have to agree that Orser could be a Tarasova. But even so, so what. A Tarasova ability to help top skaters handle the pressure and live up to their potential should not be devalued.


    Not just the Junior title she was Senior Grand Prix Final champ when she went to him. She was struggling I hear all that season with injuries, but still.

    But I do think it's forgotten that Yu-na came to Brian gift wrapped on a silver platter with great technique and championship mettle already. Girl was undefeated at the junior level the year before. She has improved under Orser, in terms of skating skills and artistry. But she would have improved under Carroll, Tarasova, all of them. I'm sure.

    I do think Adam Rippon will tell more of the tale, but I must say I was impressed with how much Rippon had improved at Junior Worlds. He went from someone who was very inconsistent with the 3 axel all season long, to very consistent with it at Junior Worlds and a much improved one. Thats' got to be attributed to Orser.
    I have to agree with this - as Joe also said in his post, Rippon will be a good guinea pig to see what Orser's coaching ability is really like (although i would argue that he too has gone to him with great technical abilities and better than average presntation skills - though the 3A progress under Orser is certainly impressive).

    I don't think there's anything wrong with Orser being the next Tarasova but i just balk everytime someone screams his name when one of the ladies announces she is switching coaches because i am left scratching my head asking why for the very reason you posted above. Yuna is a very special and talented skater, she was and always would be IMO, it doesn't matter what coach she had - she broked out as a junior without the "top coaching" found outside Korea, she wasn't devoid of presentation skills (like Yagudin was pre Tarasova), so clearly she was destined for the top, Orser or no Orser. She was plagued with injuries up until last seasno (yet another possible reasno for skating with greater joy).

    I just find it all a bit Robin Wagner - but in a way worse because at least Wagner was Hughes coach from the start. One winning student does not, a good coach make, especially (in Orsers case) when you get that student will a complete technical and artisitc package.

    Ant

  9. #144
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    I suspect with Orser that he did manage to do something that impressed Yu-na to even ask him to be her coach. And I do think the fact that Yu-na is handling the pressure of being Korea's Princess Diana is a big testament in many ways to Orser. I think he's good at helping skaters with the mental game. Sometimes having a coach that has experienced that kind of pressure is a good thing for the skaters mentally. I suspect a lot of the other skaters are impressed by the way he is with Yu-na...

  10. #145
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    I've always wondered if Kurt Browning will ever get into coaching. Probably because he is one of my favorite skaters of all time. He had it all as a skater. I think he would be a wonderful coach for Caroline Zhang if he ever decided to coach.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by LKR722 View Post
    I've always wondered if Kurt Browning will ever get into coaching. Probably because he is one of my favorite skaters of all time. He had it all as a skater. I think he would be a wonderful coach for Caroline Zhang if he ever decided to coach.
    Oh my, that would be a match made in heaven. Just look at Kurt's jumps, speed...footwork!

    Maybe there's hope - Kurt's quotes were used in that article on Caroline feraina linked to in this thread, so he must have at least taken some notice of her. Although I do remember he sounded rather unimpressed with Caroline in the CBC broadcast of last year's SC.

    Don Laws is another good choice. Someone old-school who is all about teknik, teknik, teknik!

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    One has to realize that there are Teaching Coaches, and Master Coaches. I do not know who taught YuNa the various elements when she first started training as a competitive figure skating.

    It was Priscilla Hill who taught Johnny Weir the elements of competitive figure skating including his fabulous edging and flow over the ice, up to his remarkable 3A. She then brought him to TT to polish it all up.)

    Why YuNa chose Orser, I do not know, but he has given her a sense of musicality and showmanship as well as a most promising Oly champ.

    Is he yet a Master Coach? We'll see with Adam Rippon.

    Joe, I bet if you were to ask Brian or YuNa, both would say that it is David Wilson who has been the most instrumental in developing YuNa's musicality and showmanship.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by visaliakid View Post
    Joe, I bet if you were to ask Brian or YuNa, both would say that it is David Wilson who has been the most instrumental in developing YuNa's musicality and showmanship.
    More than likely, you are correct. But then, who recognized that David would accomplish this? more than likely, Orser.

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by visaliakid View Post
    Joe, I bet if you were to ask Brian or YuNa, both would say that it is David Wilson who has been the most instrumental in developing YuNa's musicality and showmanship.

    What happens when Yuna is having a technical skating problem trying to execute a move from a new choreo? Is it Wilson or Orser who will show her what the problem is and how to fix it? Who will show her the proper skating techniques to bring a new step sequence to life? - Wilson or Orser?
    Maybe both - but I don't see why there is a reluctance to give Orser credit for Yuna's steady progress? Aritstry is more than just flapping your arms and smiling on cue. Without being able to properly execute a choreographer's vision on the ice the musicality and showmanship will suffer. Even Oksana had trouble selling her superior artistry when her skating technique diminished.

  15. #150
    The burr up Speedy's Butt! visaliakid's Avatar
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    Ultimately I think Joe is correct in stating that overall, Brian is responsible for YuNa's finished product on the ice. My reference to David Wilson stems from the various videos on YouTube that clearly show David on ice with YuNa, showing her how to express the choreographed moves he has given her music.

    When it comes down to it, being shown and actually expressing it from the heart is the responsibility of the skater to demonstrate. A great skater like YuNa has this god-given ability to skate from the heart. As to the degree her skating demonstrates this now, that both David and Brian are helping to develop her full potential. IMHO she has so much more to give, and I predict she will eventually reach a Kwan-like quality.

    I will state that YuNa is the only skater other than Michelle Kwan that has ever illicited a total state of joy in my mind and heart.

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