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- Jan 23, 2004
:agree:
Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season
- Thread starter Spun Silver
- Start date
:agree:
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- Feb 17, 2007
I can't say I understand this constant game of musical coaches, but I hope it works out for Caroline. 
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
You were right on the money with this information days before the official announcement. Who is your secret source or are you Caroline?
I will pay more attention to your posts in the future.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
I don't share the disipointment most of you feel. I have a lot of faith in Charlene. Don't forget she coached Mirai to a National Title both at the Junior and Senior levels. She is a smart lady and great coach. Just because she has not had any internationally successful students yet does not mean she is not good.
Mirai and Charlene did not work out, probably becuase Mirai was also taking lessons from every other coach in southern california, plus her growth spurt and the pressure of being national champion.
I think both girls made the right decision. I can't wait to see the results.
Mirai and Charlene did not work out, probably becuase Mirai was also taking lessons from every other coach in southern california, plus her growth spurt and the pressure of being national champion.
I think both girls made the right decision. I can't wait to see the results.
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- Mar 14, 2006
Caroline would not have used the word "directed" (IMO). It's Charlene!You were right on the money with this information days before the official announcement. Who is your secret source or are you Caroline?
I was reading some of the the older Mirai articles someone posted and saw that she goes to Sondra Holmes for jump coaching, who is the same jump doctor Caroline goes/went to. Interesting that their jumps are so different...now if only someone can combine Mirai's speed and entry with Caroline's mid-air rotation. I wonder if Caroline's going to switch to someone other than Holmes?
feraina can correct me if I'm wrong, but Caroline has had Sondra since she was very young, so she won't stop going to her.
I think it's also a matter of how much raw jumping talent a skater has - Mirai is just naturally more gifted than Caroline in this regard. A coach can only do so much. It's likely that Caroline will never jump with great height or cover the ice with lots of speed, but she can surely improve in those areas from where she is now.
Another interesting thing about Mirai and Caroline is that they both flutz, so if Sondra taught them the lutz, she might want to reconsider how she teaches that jump. As a side note, I also checked out some of Charlene's skating yesterday on YouTube, and she had a great 2A and good speed. I just wish I felt better about her as a skater - this is why I'm not worried that Jeremy Abbott went to Yuka Sato for coaching, because Yuka had gorgeous skating technique on just about everything.
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- Feb 5, 2004
I can understand your concerns about Charlene's abilities as a skater, however, just because someone wasn't such an accomplished skater, it doesn't mean that they cannot teach the correct technique, or teach skaters to be better than they were back in their day. Mishin never landed quads or triples yet he has no problem teaching them to his students.
There are an abudance of coaches all over the world who "only" managed to land double axels in their elligible days but they still manage to teach their students good triples.
Arguably those skaters who are/were excellent skaters might be less likely to teach something well that came/comes so naturally to them, compared to someone who has struggled to attain the same level and has had to learn/correct and practice harder at their own technique.
Ant
Personnally, I hope it works out for Caroline .
But I don't think it will, why Caroline under Li was getting higher scores than Mirai , also politics plays a part.
Does judges feel and place some skaters higher than others based on Name,
How long has Wong been a coach, her highest achievedment to date was Mirais national debatle title. she was over marked (mirai) at nationals.
even with caroline mistakes she got high scores.
I thought Mirai made a mistake last year when she went to Wong, I hope I was wrong so I didn't say anything. The scores showed me is was right.
Do I think this will help caroline no, It will hurt, just like last year mirai got hurt under charlene her scores were in the 140-150;s. I wouldn't be surprised if
Caroline scores dropped to 130-150. Because they gave Mirai those scores last year under Wong, they will give Caroline those scores this year. I hope I am wrong.
Teb her first event, she had a shot at a medal now, i think she will be lucky to place 5th behind, or 7th.
Nationals the US are just looking for a way to Keep Caroline out of the Olympics now they have it.
Rachel 5th in the world, stays on team, Sasha will get in based on high scores, maybe overmarked, than Mirai with Frank, Ashley with Priscilla Hill & Kimberly with her coach, Emily, Alexi Gilles with Tom Dickson and than finally Caroline.
they have no reason to hold her up at all.
like i said I hope i am wrong but politics and the scoring they did for her the past seasons and her two gp events. I am not sure.
SC now will more like be 5th 6th behind Cythnia, Mirai,
at nationals she will be lucky to be in the top 8. I don't see this part
But I don't think it will, why Caroline under Li was getting higher scores than Mirai , also politics plays a part.
Does judges feel and place some skaters higher than others based on Name,
How long has Wong been a coach, her highest achievedment to date was Mirais national debatle title. she was over marked (mirai) at nationals.
even with caroline mistakes she got high scores.
I thought Mirai made a mistake last year when she went to Wong, I hope I was wrong so I didn't say anything. The scores showed me is was right.
Do I think this will help caroline no, It will hurt, just like last year mirai got hurt under charlene her scores were in the 140-150;s. I wouldn't be surprised if
Caroline scores dropped to 130-150. Because they gave Mirai those scores last year under Wong, they will give Caroline those scores this year. I hope I am wrong.
Teb her first event, she had a shot at a medal now, i think she will be lucky to place 5th behind, or 7th.
Nationals the US are just looking for a way to Keep Caroline out of the Olympics now they have it.
Rachel 5th in the world, stays on team, Sasha will get in based on high scores, maybe overmarked, than Mirai with Frank, Ashley with Priscilla Hill & Kimberly with her coach, Emily, Alexi Gilles with Tom Dickson and than finally Caroline.
they have no reason to hold her up at all.
like i said I hope i am wrong but politics and the scoring they did for her the past seasons and her two gp events. I am not sure.
SC now will more like be 5th 6th behind Cythnia, Mirai,
at nationals she will be lucky to be in the top 8. I don't see this part
Well of course your right successful skater doesn't equal successful coach at all. But in the case of Caroline, well Caroline needs someone who can help her fix her technique.
Maybe Wong can help her do this. But the fact is her last student Mirai, also needed help with her technique and these things weren't fixed either. So people are just disappointed because at this point in Zhang's career, it would be nice to see her with a coach who has a proven track record.
In the case of Mishin, top Russian skaters didn't just automatically start coming to the guy. A lot of his students he coached at 10/12 etc. Mishin proved with them that he was great at teaching the jumps. And in Mishin's case too, Russians are very good technically (normally) and he also has a degree in Science I believe and some of his approaches when it comes to teaching jumps are scientific.
I know Yu-na took a chance on Orser. And I was a bit worried then, but she took a chance on him at the beginning of the Olympic cycle, and Yu-na at that point except for the loop had very good technique.
That is a good point, Ant, and one I had never thought of. I love how I can never have the final say on anything on this board. Everyone here has such fertile minds!
Well, not really at this point in her career. Now is not the best time for Caroline to be overhauling technique, not with the Olympics only months away and there being only 2 spots on the line. I'd say she should just worry about fine-tuning certain aspects of her skating (speed, better choreography and transitions, etc.) for the upcoming season. Caroline may very well choose to leave Charlene if she decides to completely rework her jumps after 2010.
And perhaps it's not fair to place the blame squarely on Charlene for Mirai's worsening URs. In regards to her actual skating, we now know that Mirai spent just as much time (if not more) with other coaches as she did with Charlene. We also know that the decision to have such a large team was made by Mirai and/or her folks. It'll be interesting to see how Mirai fares now that Frank has put his foot down. If Mirai had been devoted solely to Charlene (and if other variables hadn't occurred), who's to say her skating wouldn't have improved.
I'd have preferred if Caroline went to someone with a proven track record as well, but I'm willing to give C+C a chance, especially since we have yet to see the fruits of their collaboration.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
"Haters"? RD, aren't you always protesting the use of that term? Nobody's hating here, just doubting the wisdom of the move.Kinda hoping she does well to prove the doubters/haters wrong
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
There is a possibilty that this is a one season deal (or maybe on a trial basis).
After the Olympics and Worlds next season there may be some coaches looking for skaters. Take the case of Yuna and Orser. If Yuna wins OGM there is a chance she might retire. For all we know Caroline's people have already talked about this with Orser. If such a move happened Orser could have Caroline for three seasons leading into 2014. If I needed my 2A and other jumps and techniques changed/fixed he would be on the top of my list. Or the case of Aruntunian and Sasha. Most likely Sasha will be gone again after next season. There are other coaches and possibilties that could be more favorable after the Olympics.
Anyway - Goodluck next season to Sweet Caroline and Charlene.
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Maybe charlene can fix her technique. I don't know but Li was doing it gradually.
Also it takes more mental toughness and Charlene doesn't have it.
Case in point at beginning of season Mirai came in as defending national champ.
even though she is a teenager, She should have came out swinging and show everyone why she was national champ. Charlene (not word for word) but basically stated Mirai was a kid , should have skated like a kid and had time to
grow, That might have been well and good , but not for a national champ, you have to come out swinging and prove why you are ,regardless of age.
Also who has Charlene brought to the forefront in canada, i don't mean junior or novice skaters, i mean senior.
in the US it is just as much a mental game as a physical one,more so.
Charlene didn't help Mirai handle it mentally as well.
I fear this is a step back for Caroline , not a step forward.
Also it takes more mental toughness and Charlene doesn't have it.
Case in point at beginning of season Mirai came in as defending national champ.
even though she is a teenager, She should have came out swinging and show everyone why she was national champ. Charlene (not word for word) but basically stated Mirai was a kid , should have skated like a kid and had time to
grow, That might have been well and good , but not for a national champ, you have to come out swinging and prove why you are ,regardless of age.
Also who has Charlene brought to the forefront in canada, i don't mean junior or novice skaters, i mean senior.
in the US it is just as much a mental game as a physical one,more so.
Charlene didn't help Mirai handle it mentally as well.
I fear this is a step back for Caroline , not a step forward.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
I like Mirai but am not as familiar with her as Caroline. One thing I don't worry about is Caroline or Rachael's toughness. They both seem to know how to compete. It will be more interesting for me to see how a much taller Caroline will be dealing with this huge growth spurt. Is she really up to 5'6 ? Maybe mathman was kidding when he mentioned that in a different topic.
I remember the year Michelle grew two inches and she took a while to adjust to it. Caroline has gone from what - 4'10 to 5'5 or so in a year? That is one heck of a growth spurt for a skater to deal with.
Mingzhu Li has a Chinese blog, in which she wrote recently about the apparently amicable split. I'll translate the part that's related to Caroline.
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4facfef00100dqnd.html
"Best Wishes to Caroline"
In recent days, I received many phone calls from friends in the US and China, asking about OO's coaching change. Yes, we have concluded our collaboration. Since last Monday, Charlene Wong has officially become Caroline Zhang's new coach.
Looking back, I have accompanied OO to five National's, twice at the Senior level. From the time when she still couldn't do all five triples, to winning Junior World's, to qualifying for the GPF, and finally to winning the bronze medal at National's... Caroline Zhang is a very talented figure skater. Even though this is not yet the brightest shining moment in her life, but during these five years of collaboration, I, as her coach, have felt happiness with every little improvement, maturation in her skating.
Even though we have finished working together, our exchanges are still very friendly and cheerful, and I also had very frank and detailed discussion with OO and her parents about the coaching change. Perhaps this is different from what is the norm in China, probably coaching changes are more frequent in the US, it's really quite common. Recently, US national men's champion Jeremy, pairs champion Keauna/Rockne, ladies skaters Mirai, Ashley, Meissner, etc. Normally, when the athlete and the coach cannot see eye to eye in training, or if she feels like changing a coach can change the environment, resulting in some changes and new improvements, these factors can all lead to re-grouping of coaches and athletes.
For OO and her family, they are very grateful for the nurturing I have given her these years; for myself, I am also very grateful for their great support in all my work. We will always be friends. In future competitions, I hope that OO will always show the best side of herself to the audience. My own work now will shift focus more toward the three Chinese skaters, I have no plans at the moment to return to China for coaching...
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4facfef00100dqnd.html
"Best Wishes to Caroline"
In recent days, I received many phone calls from friends in the US and China, asking about OO's coaching change. Yes, we have concluded our collaboration. Since last Monday, Charlene Wong has officially become Caroline Zhang's new coach.
Looking back, I have accompanied OO to five National's, twice at the Senior level. From the time when she still couldn't do all five triples, to winning Junior World's, to qualifying for the GPF, and finally to winning the bronze medal at National's... Caroline Zhang is a very talented figure skater. Even though this is not yet the brightest shining moment in her life, but during these five years of collaboration, I, as her coach, have felt happiness with every little improvement, maturation in her skating.
Even though we have finished working together, our exchanges are still very friendly and cheerful, and I also had very frank and detailed discussion with OO and her parents about the coaching change. Perhaps this is different from what is the norm in China, probably coaching changes are more frequent in the US, it's really quite common. Recently, US national men's champion Jeremy, pairs champion Keauna/Rockne, ladies skaters Mirai, Ashley, Meissner, etc. Normally, when the athlete and the coach cannot see eye to eye in training, or if she feels like changing a coach can change the environment, resulting in some changes and new improvements, these factors can all lead to re-grouping of coaches and athletes.
For OO and her family, they are very grateful for the nurturing I have given her these years; for myself, I am also very grateful for their great support in all my work. We will always be friends. In future competitions, I hope that OO will always show the best side of herself to the audience. My own work now will shift focus more toward the three Chinese skaters, I have no plans at the moment to return to China for coaching...
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
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