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- Feb 7, 2009
Caroline aka OO (round-round - 圆圆)
Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season
- Thread starter Spun Silver
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
Li sounds like a very classy lady. Thank you for the translation.
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- Feb 17, 2007
Caroline aka OO (round-round - 圆圆)
Caroline's Wikipedia entry used to list her as Caroline Zhou Zhang. But the Zhou seems to be gone. Maybe it was a mistake.
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- May 15, 2009
I guess we will have to see how it works out with Caroline and Charlene. Will Charlene coach Caroline by "committee" as she seemed to do with Mirai? Or maybe that was Mirai's choice to work with so many different coaches. Caroline has said she will continue with the same jump coach she has had for many years. I don't know if that represents as much change as some may have hoped for.
Aside from the coaching angle, there must have been other considerations factored in. Maybe Caroline did NOT want to move away from her family and friends at this time. Of course there could be financial considerations for her family. She just turned 16 and she has time especially if she is looking towards 2014. Some say she must do everything possible for a good showing in Vancouver - but I think she and her family know her chances to even make the US Team are no better than 50-50 this season. And there has been a major growth spurt to contend with.
I hope she wins US Natls this season but looking at her PB scores does she have a realistic chance to medal if she makes it to Vancouver? Only with a few major meltdowns and the best skate of her career. So all things considered I think Caroline and her family probably made the best choice for this season. If she clicks with Charlene then great. If not, she can make another change as she looks to 2014.
Thanks for that translation!
I'm wary of this coaching decision, but I think it's pretty obvious something had to be changed. I don't think it will be wise to really shake up her technique at this point, with Vancouver so close, but if some slight changes, most notably speed, deeper/solid edges and expression, come out of this new coaching arrangement, by all means it will be a success. As much as I'd love to see Caroline with a technical coach who can improve on her jump technique, sometimes I think we need some sort of change just to push forward and challenge ourselves, and maybe that is what Caroline is targeting. If that is the case, I hope after 2010, she finds that right coach to press on towards 2014 with.
I don't know what Caroline's 2009-10 medal chances are, but given she has done quite well under International judges compared to the other US ladies, I would think with the right, maxed out programs, she places herself in a very good position to be in the top 3-4 at her GP events and top 6 at Olys/Worlds. Of course I would LOVE to see her on the podium every time out, but that may have to wait until Worlds 2010 and thereafter. I think right now, the big 4 to watch are Yu-Na, Mao, Joannie and Miki, with Carolina as a potential spoiler. Given that 3 of those 5 are precarious to meltdowns, Caroline, Miss Consistency with her big TES marks, could slip right in there.
I'm wary of this coaching decision, but I think it's pretty obvious something had to be changed. I don't think it will be wise to really shake up her technique at this point, with Vancouver so close, but if some slight changes, most notably speed, deeper/solid edges and expression, come out of this new coaching arrangement, by all means it will be a success. As much as I'd love to see Caroline with a technical coach who can improve on her jump technique, sometimes I think we need some sort of change just to push forward and challenge ourselves, and maybe that is what Caroline is targeting. If that is the case, I hope after 2010, she finds that right coach to press on towards 2014 with.
I don't know what Caroline's 2009-10 medal chances are, but given she has done quite well under International judges compared to the other US ladies, I would think with the right, maxed out programs, she places herself in a very good position to be in the top 3-4 at her GP events and top 6 at Olys/Worlds. Of course I would LOVE to see her on the podium every time out, but that may have to wait until Worlds 2010 and thereafter. I think right now, the big 4 to watch are Yu-Na, Mao, Joannie and Miki, with Carolina as a potential spoiler. Given that 3 of those 5 are precarious to meltdowns, Caroline, Miss Consistency with her big TES marks, could slip right in there.
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2009
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- Feb 7, 2009
I think Wong is hired to do the "dirty work" and go for broke.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
Yes. very nice message. I think Caroline is going to come out fighting next season. Her growth spurt is over, she wants that national title. Look out Sasha.
I agree with those who have mentioned that Li seems gracious and classy.
I'm not sure Charlene is the right choice either- but not sure she isn't. Skaters often go to a marquee coach in hopes that their prestige will rub off on them. Truth is, many times little actual improvement is seen.
As others have mentioned, Caroline is tough. And very competitive. I don't think she would have made this move without having a sound reason. She is young but seems bright and focused.
I hope it's a good partnership.. Caroline is my first choice for the US Ladies team in Vancouver..
I'm not sure Charlene is the right choice either- but not sure she isn't. Skaters often go to a marquee coach in hopes that their prestige will rub off on them. Truth is, many times little actual improvement is seen.
As others have mentioned, Caroline is tough. And very competitive. I don't think she would have made this move without having a sound reason. She is young but seems bright and focused.
I hope it's a good partnership.. Caroline is my first choice for the US Ladies team in Vancouver..
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
If one analyses Caroline's skating what exactly is there to improve on. Considering her scores, she does well on the jumps, spins and footwork.
I think if Charlene can tidy up the mule kick (which btw, is not scorable) and liven up the music that would be small improvements What I am looking forward to is a first class skate this season and a podium finish at 2010 Worlds.
I think if Charlene can tidy up the mule kick (which btw, is not scorable) and liven up the music that would be small improvements What I am looking forward to is a first class skate this season and a podium finish at 2010 Worlds.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Actually, if you look at the scores, it is quite quite apparent what Caroline needs to improve on -- the quality of almost every technical element.
To take as an example Four Continents LP, here are the base values (what she did) and the GOEs (how well she did it), for the tech scores.
Asada: base value 51.68, GOEs 6.90
Rochette: base value 54.25, GOEs 4.20
Kim: base value 53.05, GOEs 3.90 (a bad competition for Kim. Her GOEs are usually much higher.)
Zhang: base value 58.58, GOEs 1.44
Phaneuf: base value 52.61, GOEs 1.90
In this competition, Caroline had the highest base values for her elements, way higher than Kim, Asada, or anyone else. When it came to the quality of her elements, she was even behind Phaneuf.
By the way, the skater with the second highest technical base value was Rachael Flatt: base value 57.21. Her total GOEs were negative 0.86 and she finished 7th.
Both Caroline's and Rachael's coaches have their work cut out for them.
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I should have made it more clear but that was intended to be a tongue in cheek use of the word. In other words, it's a highly overused term.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Thanks for the breakdown mm. I have resisted going back and analyzing CoP "boxscores" but when looking at what you presented it is obvious for a skater, their coach and even fans what areas a skater needs to work on. I am curious - doesn't Rachel usually score better on the GOEs or were her marks at 4CC a typical for her last season?
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I started to look it up, but I got sidetracked by Worlds. At Worlds (Rachael was fifth), in her LP she had a base score of 55.91 and a total GOE of 3.40. Quite respectable.
But if you look at where her points came from, she had incredible luck in the random draw.
Her biggest GOE was for her spiral, +1.40. Her scores on the element were 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2. All three of the 2’s were included in the final tally, and both 0’s were thrown out between the random draw and dropping the lowest.
Her next biggest score was on her triple loop, a total of +0.80. The actual scores were 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1. In the random draw, two of the zeros were eliminated and all the 1’s were kept.
Her next highest was her triple Salchow. The scores were 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1. Two of the zeros were thrown out and all of the 1’s were kept.
Those tenths of a point add up.
Hum, interesting. Did she have any "bad luck" element? Or were they all very "lucky"?
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
List of things Caroline knows she need to improve (and probably will):
1. More speed. she really stepped it up at the end of last season.
2. more height in her jumps so she can rotate fully and stop getting downgraded on her 3/3.
3. Interpretation. in her GP events last year and at nationals in the SP she skated with a stony face and simply went through the motions. She needs to listen to music and emote if she wants better PCS.
4. Flutz/mule kick. no explanation needed.
Coach can only get you so far. There's a good chance Zhang will go backwards this season under any coach.
Zhang is so afraid to get out of her comfort zone. Why did she ditch Sarah Kawahara's program and is using Lorizzzzzzzzzzzz again ? Kawahara is known to push skater's limit and I guess Zhang is back to her cocoon. Her programs have been the same old, same old for many many years.
She is slooooow and her spins are getting worse every year, her spirals are also getting pretty boring. I really don't think she'll be able to go to the Olympics.
Zhang is so afraid to get out of her comfort zone. Why did she ditch Sarah Kawahara's program and is using Lorizzzzzzzzzzzz again ? Kawahara is known to push skater's limit and I guess Zhang is back to her cocoon. Her programs have been the same old, same old for many many years.
She is slooooow and her spins are getting worse every year, her spirals are also getting pretty boring. I really don't think she'll be able to go to the Olympics.
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