Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season

evangeline · Jun 21, 2009

janetfan said:
That is a very good point and a real possibilty Joe.
What is scarier to me is that the tech caller can be in the pocket of higher up ISU officials or even the top dog himself.
Why is it that there is talk about hi-def instant replays - but they will be kept secret (or out of the public's view)?
Can you imagine a close battle in Vancouver between Yuna and Mao? And that the OGM would be determined by a tech call that many could not see? Or agree with what they did see on their TV watching at home. It is like ISU is setting themselves up for a fall with this secrecy business. So much of CoP is still subjective and I would feel bad for either Yuna or Mao if they lost the OGM based on some phantom call by the tech caller.

If anything, teh Internets will certainly explode in an unprecedented Gotterdammerung of uberist rage if that scenario does indeed happen.

But then again, there is the flip side to all this. Let's say Skater A skates cleanly but underrotates a couple of jumps, un-noticed by the general viewing public but noted by the tech caller. Skater B rotates all her jumps, but falls on one--which is noticed by all. The result is very close, but Skater B with the obvious mistake has the more points of the two by a bit. Should the powers that be pander to the general viewing public and overlook the finicky underrotations of the seemingly-clean Skater A? Or should they stick to their guns and court possible controversy by giving the gold to Skater B with the obvious mistake?

feraina · Jun 21, 2009

Dipyramidal said:
Caroline posted in her twitter that her music is something lyrical.

Thanks. Hmm, not much of a hint, could be anything.

Andalusia · Jun 21, 2009

feraina said:
Thanks. Hmm, not much of a hint, could be anything.

I'll pry it out of her yet.

She also said she went to Florida, but Don Laws was not the coach she was considering. Hmmm. Callaghan, maybe? That would have been funny had she gone to him, considering he coached Lipinski to an OGM over Kwan.

PML at the person who wanted to befriend Caroline - "you might have doubts, but that's the risk you'll have to take". :laugh:

nylynnr · Jun 21, 2009

janetfan said:
That is a very good point and a real possibilty Joe.
What is scarier to me is that the tech caller can be in the pocket of higher up ISU officials or even the top dog himself.

I've never heard of a technical caller being in the "pocket" of Mr. Cinquanta, or anyone else -- what do you mean by this? In the secret pay of the ISU President?

Another thing posters critiquing the objectivity of "the caller" might want to consider: there are three people on the technical panel. It's not like one person is able to ride roughshod and call everything the way he/she likes it. The three-person panel could well be from Russia, China and US, for example. And unlike judges, technical panels are identified by name and position, so if Vladimir Petrenko, for example, starts ratifying a lot of suspect jumps from Ukrainian skaters, people will notice. Guess I'm not sure why Janetfan, Mathman and others take such a negative view of the callers -- certainly human beings can make mistakes but if anyone is going to get caught playing favorites, it's them. Their names, titles and every value they assign are immediately published. Perhaps you folks know about scandals I'm not privy to?

Back to Caroline: as others have written, I think her big issue with PCS is she is rather slow. Certainly this can and probably will be improved and she will gain higher PCS.

Mathman · Jun 21, 2009

nylynnr said:
...Mathman and others take such a negative view of the callers

? What post of mine could you possibly be referring to?

PolymerBob · Jun 21, 2009

nylynnr said:
I've never heard of a technical caller being in the "pocket" of Mr. Cinquanta, or anyone else -- what do you mean by this? In the secret pay of the ISU President?

Back to Caroline: as others have written, I think her big issue with PCS is she is rather slow. Certainly this can and probably will be improved and she will gain higher PCS.

I think Mr. Cinquanta wants a fair competition. If he does controll the callers then they should be harder to influence or bribe.

As for Caroline, I will see her skate next weekend in Boxborough, MA during the show. Two months is not much time to make an improvement, but I will see if she has gotten any faster. I will try to take some video.

janetfan · Jun 21, 2009

Mathman said:
? What post of mine could you possibly be referring to?

Actually, the comment I made was from something I read in one of Bianchetti's articles and I was paraphrasing remarks from a coach. I think it was Morozov who was saying how it is easier than ever to cheat because of the secrecy and the fact that you don't need to get a few judges but just a tech caller.
Generally speaking my recollection after watching skating competitions over the years is that the feeling of cheating is nothing new. In fact an Olympic skating competition perceived as being fair and scandal free is quite unusual.

Mathman · Jun 21, 2009

PolymerBob said:
I think Mr. Cinquanta wants a fair competition. If he does controll the callers then they should be harder to influence or bribe.

:thumbsup: This is the whole point (although, again, I think "influence" is what we are talking about, not bribery. In all the judging scandals over the years, I can't think of a single one where monetary payoffs were involved.)

The purpose of the national federations is to get as many medals for their skaters as they can. It is right there in their mission statements. The mission statements do not say, "the purpose of this organization is to play fair."

Long before the CoP came on the scene, there was a lot of talk about having the judges work directly for the ISU instead of for their individual federations, but nothing ever came of it.

The idea of the technical panel is that -- at least in principle -- they do not work for a particular federation whose stated goal is, by hook or by crook, to secure the best possible results for their own skaters.

Andalusia · Jun 21, 2009

I think this is the most I've ever posted in one thread, lol.

So, apparently the title of Caroline's new LP music has 3 vowels in it.

Oh, dear. Turandot? Swan Lake???!!!

Heaven forbid.

feraina · Jun 21, 2009

Swan Lake is only two vowels. So not that.

Turandot is more dramatic than lyrical, isn't it?

Maybe you can try to find out whether it's a piano or violin piece.

Andalusia · Jun 21, 2009

feraina said:
Swan Lake is only two vowels. So not that.

Turandot is more dramatic than lyrical, isn't it?

Maybe you can try to find out whether it's a piano or violin piece.

I'm thinking if more people bug her on it, she'll eventually cave in.

So, now the second letter is a vowel. Hmmm. It's looking more and more like Turandot. The latter is dramatic, but I think it has some lyrical parts, too, doesn't it?

I really hope it isn't Turandot. Please, no. Talk about overused. Kimmie used it only recently. Btw, hers was also a Lori Nichol program. If Caroline ends up using it as well, it'll be apparent that Lori's well has really run dry.

R.D. · Jun 21, 2009

it seems the skaters have a field day teasing their fans about their music and they eat it up

it's only a piece of music :chorus: I can wait until they debut it in the fall.

Andalusia · Jun 21, 2009

Red Dog said:
it's only a piece of music :chorus: I can wait until they debut it in the fall.

I know, but it's such fun.

Besides, I'm on a study break at the moment and I love guessing games.

Tinymavy15 · Jun 22, 2009

I hope she announces soon.
maybe "the mission" for her LP? that is 3 syllables.
did she ever confirm zigeunerweisen as her SP?

Andalusia · Jun 22, 2009

Tinymavy15 said:
did she ever confirm zigeunerweisen as her SP?

She did.

Interestingly enough, Yu-Na's SP was listed as Zigeunerweisen last season before she switched to Danse Macabre. It would be weird if she reverts to the former piece for next season. Her choreographer is David Wilson, so they might not know a competitor is using the same piece of music.

I wasn't too keen on the selection at first, but the more I hear it, the more I'm convinced it's just what Caroline needs - something fast, dramatic and powerful. I just hope she has the chops to pull it off. Anne-Sophie Mutter's version is superb:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I3R1H6qujE

fliptart · Jun 22, 2009

Tinymavy15 said:
did she ever confirm zigeunerweisen as her SP?

She did.

Mathman · Jun 22, 2009

^ Hey, I got left out. The only thing Caroline told me about her SP music is that it has seven vowels.

LeCygne · Jun 22, 2009

feraina said:
Swan Lake is only two vowels. So not that.

Swan Lake is three vowels actually.

Gahh Turandot is too overused, but lucky thing I love Nessun Dorma. I hope that's not it though. Nessun Dorma has 4 vowels, but Turandot has 3...

Has anyone ever skated to this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X9LvC9WkkQIt has more than 3 vowels so that's not it, but I feel like it could make a great LP if coupled with another piece. Not necessarily for Caroline, just in general.

Mathman · Jun 22, 2009

LeCygne said:
Has anyone ever skated to this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X9LvC9WkkQ

Here's Mao Asada :love:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt0GZCp7n-s

Wrlmy · Jun 22, 2009

Andalusia said:
I'm thinking if more people bug her on it, she'll eventually cave in.

So, now the second letter is a vowel. Hmmm. It's looking more and more like Turandot. The latter is dramatic, but I think it has some lyrical parts, too, doesn't it?

I really hope it isn't Turandot. Please, no. Talk about overused. Kimmie used it only recently. Btw, hers was also a Lori Nichol program. If Caroline ends up using it as well, it'll be apparent that Lori's well has really run dry.

I'm really hoping it's not Turandot. I hated what Lori did for Kimmie.

So three vowels, and the second letter is a vowel?
Nut Cracker? Like the cut Sasha used?

Or Nocturne??

Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season

evangeline

feraina

Andalusia

nylynnr

Mathman

PolymerBob

janetfan

Match Penalty

Mathman

Andalusia

feraina

Andalusia

R.D.

Andalusia

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

Andalusia

fliptart

Mathman

LeCygne

Mathman

Wrlmy

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