Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season

LeCygne said:

Swan Lake is three vowels actually.

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I think what feraina meant is that Swan Lake only has 2 types of vowels in it - 'a' and 'e'. We don't know if Caroline meant 3 different types of vowels or 3 vowels of any kind.

Wrlmy said:

So three vowels, and the second letter is a vowel?

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Yep.

Ugh, I hope it's not Nutcracker, either. One thing I liked about Sasha is that she never went to Lori. Caroline needs something new and different - in that respect, I'm glad about the music choice for her SP. People are already complaining she's boring and same old, same old...unfortunately, I think it's likely she'll revert to something soft and pwetty and balletic for the LP. The most she'll stretch herself is the SP.

Wrlmy said:

I'm really hoping it's not Turandot. I hated what Lori did for Kimmie.

So three vowels, and the second letter is a vowel?
Nut Cracker? Like the cut Sasha used?

Or Nocturne??

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Nutcracker (fulfills requirement) Pas de Deux???

Why is Nichols solely blamed for the athlete's choice of music? Isn't this a team effort? Coach, skater, choreographer and I would assume that Zhang's mother is there as well when this process occurs? And knowing Caroline and she does have a strong mind of her own, I would suspect that she has a very definite mindset about the type of music she chooses to skate to and LN can only influence those choices so much. I think the season she used Tom Dickson for her SP was perhaps a little outside her comfort zone, but IMO, it was a good chance for her to try something new and expand her horizons in terms of interpretation and projection of choreo on the ice. I don't think Nichols is a limiting choice in the programs, I think Nichols is working within Caroline's comfort zone . JMO.

I do think you're right, Nigel. If, as we've heard, Caroline is unwilling to move out of her comfort zone, then that's part of the problem, too, and I'm not just talking about music choices. But I wouldn't be too sure about Lori - in that interview she did with PJ Kwong (it's on YouTube), she mentioned that she's now become very firm about what music skaters should use. I'm paraphrasing, but she said something like, "If they want to work with me, they have to skate to so and so music".

I think people are also sick of Lori because everyone and their uncle seems to go to her for choreography, and the end results are oftentimes pretty blah. The music choices and choreography are all pretty generic. Rachael, Caroline, Kimmie, Mirai...the list goes on and on and on and on...

Nigel said:

Nutcracker (fulfills requirement) Pas de Deux???

Why is Nichols solely blamed for the athlete's choice of music? Isn't this a team effort? Coach, skater, choreographer and I would assume that Zhang's mother is there as well when this process occurs? And knowing Caroline and she does have a strong mind of her own, I would suspect that she has a very definite mindset about the type of music she chooses to skate to and LN can only influence those choices so much. I think the season she used Tom Dickson for her SP was perhaps a little outside her comfort zone, but IMO, it was a good chance for her to try something new and expand her horizons in terms of interpretation and projection of choreo on the ice. I don't think Nichols is a limiting choice in the programs, I think Nichols is working within Caroline's comfort zone . JMO.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Lori known to take a "my way or no way" approach when it comes to music choice? It's no coincidence Dickson chose a music very different from the usual repertoire. Granted, it was Caroline's choice not anyone else's to go to Lori, but I can't help but think Lori keeps pigeonholing skaters into a nutshell.

Andalusia said:

The most she'll stretch herself is the SP.

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But you know that Zigeunerweisen is about 9 minutes long, of those 9 minutes you got about 2,5 minutes dramatic, fast-paced music - and the rest is very pretty, slow and lyrical? (by the way, is that the official name of the music, the one that Sarasate chose? Would be strange, because the name is German...)

Which brings us back to the question, why do so many skaters keep going to Lori? Is she easier to get to than choreographers like Wilson? Cheaper? What do they see in her choreography that we obviously don't?

LeCygne said:

Which brings us back to the question, why do so many skaters keep going to Lori? Is she easier to get to than choreographers like Wilson? Cheaper? What do they see in her choreography that we obviously don't?

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Tom Dickson might have been a good choice to do the choreo for Caroline's new Sarasate SP. I like what he did for her "Spanish Gyspy" and Yuna's "Roxanne."

About Caroline's LP - I guess we can rule out c A r m E n

Medusa said:

But you know that Zigeunerweisen is about 9 minutes long, of those 9 minutes you got about 2,5 minutes dramatic, fast-paced music - and the rest is very pretty, slow and lyrical? (by the way, is that the official name of the music, the one that Sarasate chose? Would be strange, because the name is German...)

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I'm guessing she'll start with the dramatic opening section, progress to the slower parts, and the very fast closing section will be for the footwork. Slot the dramatic part in again for the spiral sequence. When I first heard the piece, it did occur to me that the music seems well-structured for a SP; there's a moderato, lento, allegro. I do hope a good edit is used, and that her SS would've improved enough that she can tackle the footwork (the allegro section is so fast!).

I'm not sure why the piece has a German name, too. The composer is Spanish and the music is based on gypsy airs - maybe it's because the piece premiered in Leipzig?

LeCygne said:

Which brings us back to the question, why do so many skaters keep going to Lori? Is she easier to get to than choreographers like Wilson? Cheaper? What do they see in her choreography that we obviously don't?

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I think Michelle Kwan started it. All those 6.0s seemed to establish that she was the pinnacle of artistry, and who was it that choreographed most of her programs? Good ol' Lori. Consequently, more and more went to her until we have the glut there is today.

Andalusia said:

I'm not sure why the piece has a German name, too. The composer is Spanish and the music is based on gypsy airs - maybe it's because the piece premiered in Leipzig?

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I think that's right. I believe the piece was was titled just “Gypsy Airs” in whatever language you wanted to say it in. But once the piece made its debut, the German version got in on the ground floor..

As a young prodigy on the violin, Sarasate traveled the world, even making a trip to the Americas. The only place where the prominent music critics didn’t like him was Germany.

In 1876, Sarasate would take on Germany, the only country that held resistance to his popularity as a musician. Germany and France were so polarized in their political loathing of each other that the French and German people even detested musicians from the opposite camps. As a result of the German press’ negative response to his tour, Sarasate considered leaving before his obligations were complete. At the prompting of a promoter, he stayed on for a performance at the Gewandhaus Concert Hall in Leipzig. The thunderous ovation lauded upon him by the German people drowned out his critics, and he subsequently stayed on to finish the tour.

As a result of his fame in Germany, many of his compositions would be published there, and the end result was that many of his pieces bore German names.

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This quote is from the Facebook page of the Westmoreland Symphony Orchestra.

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...+german+commissioned&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

(The Westmoreland Symphony Orchestra is on Facebook? I wonder if they are on Twitter. )

Nigel said:

Nutcracker (fulfills requirement) Pas de Deux???

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That would be VERY Caroline. Not that she could skate skate a beautiful Nutcracker Pas de Duex, but honestly, I am ready for somehing un-balletic from her.

Wrlmy said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Lori known to take a "my way or no way" approach when it comes to music choice?

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I think it is more that Lori Nichol knows way more about music than the skaters and coaches do.

She has a vast musical library and consults with music experts regularly. I think advice about the music is part of what you get when you hire Nichol for choreography.

Andalusia said:

I think what feraina meant is that Swan Lake only has 2 types of vowels in it - 'a' and 'e'. We don't know if Caroline meant 3 different types of vowels or 3 vowels of any kind.

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Oh, I actually meant two syllables (Swan Lake), not two vowels.

Nocturne is two syllables, too.

Wrlmy said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Lori known to take a "my way or no way" approach when it comes to music choice? It's no coincidence Dickson chose a music very different from the usual repertoire. Granted, it was Caroline's choice not anyone else's to go to Lori, but I can't help but think Lori keeps pigeonholing skaters into a nutshell.

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I have to disagree. Did MK have Lori choreo "The Red Violin"? That is not "typical" of the genre of music/programs that we seem to be talking about that Nichols has choreographed over the last few seasons. IIRC, Flatt's "La Mer", though not well received and perhaps Flatt was not ready for it and as Phil Hersh said, perhaps the judges weren't ready for it either, was an atypical choice of music as well. Flatt has chosen less well known pieces of music as a Sr level skater, and many of those programs, Nichols has choreographed. Perhaps Rachael has had to work alittle harder to sell the programs because the music is less well known, but perhaps that is a credit to Nichols and Flatt to try out different music. Nichols also choreographed Nagasu's programs the last few seasons, and they have been atypical music selections as well, ie the Chaplin music. Meissner's SP for last season (and being used again this season) is a great piece of music and again, something atypical of the usual cast of suspects in skating music.

IIRC, Nichols also choreographs for Thomas Verner who does step outside the norm when it comes to "typical" music selections.

No doubt Tom Dickson does select from a different music shop than Nichol. But, I also think that the skaters that go to him as a choreographer are looking for something alittle "different". Dickson has a style all his own and Abbott is one of those skaters who demonstrates that style. A number of the skaters from Colorado Springs have used Dickson over the years including Jahnke, Abbott, Flatt, Mroz but IIRC, Dickson did YuNa's Moulin Rouge Roxanne Tango a number of years ago. So, a broad variety of styles and music selections.

So, perhaps it is more of what Caroline wants and that is expressed in the music choices. If a skater doesn't feel comfortable doing a specific genre of music, then why push them to do something that they are not comfortable doing or ready to do. The program won't come across as designed and as a result, the skater pays the price in their scores.

I am pretty sure I read somewhere that Lori almost always picks the music for the skater, but it is probably more of a collabortive effort. I remember last year Kimmie saying how she loved Nessun Dorma and how inspired it made her feel and that is why she wanted to skate to it. Lori probably gives a few suggestions or picks the music if the skaters wants to put themselves into her hands and let her work magic....I know she picked Salome for Michelle becuase Frank C. went to her and said we want to start fresh. With a skater like caroline who has been working with Lori for a while now, it will probably be a collaboration.

Lori has a way with the lyrical passages of music for skaters who can feel the mystery of life.

Tatiana has a way with the character of the music for skaters who need something to give them reason to skate.

Wilson has a way with the skaters' styles transposed into music.

The above are just my take on the top choreogaphers of today. All three have something to offer and if the skater can understand what they are creating, the skater is on his way to a beautiful skate.

I'm looking forward to more of Dickson this season. I do not know him so well. Isn't Abbott using him as choreographer?

Andalusia, I see that you're getting somewhere with her on the LP music. I don't know if it's Nutcracker, but it seems like it might be something by Tchaikovsky in any case.

Oh dear lord, another Tchaikovsky??

:disapp:

Joesitz said:

I'm looking forward to more of Dickson this season. I do not know him so well. Isn't Abbott using him as choreographer?

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He is, for his LP to Jupiter from Holst's Planets suite and Respighi's Pines of Rome. Awesome choices, btw. I've always loved all that I've seen of Dickson's work.

feraina said:

Andalusia, I see that you're getting somewhere with her on the LP music. I don't know if it's Nutcracker, but it seems like it might be something by Tchaikovsky in any case.

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I don't know if I'm getting too close because I mentioned The Nutcracker, or because I asked for the composer's name right after mentioning the title. She sure is a tough nut to crack.

Tchaikovsky...could she be going back to Sleeping Beauty? I dearly hope her LP is neither to The Nutcracker or Sleeping Beauty. I just saw Sasha's LP to the former, and if the entire work sounds like the cuts she used, it is rather boring and monotonous. Caroline seems to have a penchant for ballet; if she is skating to a Tchaikovsky ballet, it could only be one of the two previously mentioned, or Swan Lake. AFAIK, he only composed three ballets in his lifetime.

I don't think I fibbed by mentioning the CZ International Fan Club - after all, you guys are all members, aren't cha?

Hmm... previously I thought she might skate to Gayane by Khachaturian which I'd love for her! Not to thrilled if she's using one of Tchaikovsky's ballets. If it needs to be Tchaikovsky I hope it is from Mazepa!

Alicja said:

If it needs to be Tchaikovsky I hope it is from Mazepa!

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We could only hope. That does seem like too much of an esoteric choice for Caroline to have chosen, though. If she is skating to Tchaikovsky, I would love it if she did so to his Piano Concerto No. 1.

If it's one of his three ballets, oh dear. She does seem to like all these pwetty pwetty pieces of music, doesn't she? Someone needs to broaden her tastes, stat.