It's interesting to read her POV on things, especially since she was a competitive skater. Her comments about Cohen's coaching situation are definitely interesting (and I more or less agree). However, I'm not convinced that the Nagasu/Carroll matchup is all it's cracked up to be. The skater has to 1) listen to the coach and take his/her advice and 2) actually execute the program. IMO, it all falls on the skater in the end; the coach can only do so much.
Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season
- Thread starter Spun Silver
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
What I was suggesting was that most of the posters nit pick perceived faults more than gush about her strengths. If one adores FS flexibility, no body does it better.Well, there are almost 20,000 views on this relatively recent thread. Only behind Plushenko and the 2009/10 music thread, which is for all skaters/programs.
So she's got to have more than just 5 or 6 fans here, or else the 5 or 6 of us are *extremely* obsessive fans.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
I think Joe makes a fair point but perceptions about the comments regarding Caroline could be interpreted differently.
To me, it feels that of all the USA Ladies - Caroline has by far the most support and I see genuine interest in her skating. Where are the comments about Alissa, Rachael, Mirai and Ashley? Not nearly as many........
There are many opinions and suggestions for what Caroline needs to do to take her skating to the next level. I see most of this interest as a sign of support and belief in her talent. Others may see it differently but that is what forums are for.
Jenny's blog was interesting to read this morning. I hope Jenny is right about Mirai and wrong about Caroline. As she said - we will see next season.
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- Joined
- Nov 7, 2007
I think I would agree with this (though I am sometimes guilty of the exact same thing), but I see more nit-picking on other boards than on Goldenskate. I mean, in retrospect I think it's remarkable how Caroline has managed to keep her jumps despite growing to staggering heights but most of the talk seems to revolve around her mule kick. Her slowness. Her tiny jumps. Her boring, pwetty-princess programs. Her wonky double axel. Even her supposedly chronic under-rotation. She's even been criticized as being too flexible, more of a gymnast instead of a *real* skater.
Yet (to me) Caroline is not thatmuch slower than Rachael or Alissa. She definitely rotates her jumps more than Mirai, and now mostly only has the back end of her 3-3 dinged, like most other skaters. I would say that she's as consistent as Rachael. I can also think of many other skaters with equally pwetty-princess programs. That being said, Caroline definitely has serious technical problems with her skating and I definitely see more criticism, especially in proportion to other skaters.
However, maybe this is a good thing she's getting called out for her faults...I would hate to see another skater to win Olympic gold with the glaring technical faults of some past winners. But praise where it's due should also be given, and unrelenting criticism gets very tedious.
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Concerning the critcism, I think the only thing I'd really critize is her footwork sequences which, for me, don't have enough to draw me in, it is the only part where her being slow bothers me. Her spins and spirals are amazing. I think her jumps are nice, I'm not even bothered by her mule-kick, just afraid what it might do to her health. Why she's critisized for underrotating is beyond me because she hardly ever receives downgrades other than on the end of her 3-3 combo.
For me what she needs is a little work on footwork and maybe a bit more facial expression. She's got the hard jumps, she's got the positions in spins and spirals. Zigeunerweisen sounds exciting, hope she combines the fast and slow parts which would play to her strength but also challenge her a bit.
For me what she needs is a little work on footwork and maybe a bit more facial expression. She's got the hard jumps, she's got the positions in spins and spirals. Zigeunerweisen sounds exciting, hope she combines the fast and slow parts which would play to her strength but also challenge her a bit.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Good rationale post!!! I can't help but think you are just including the required footwork sequences in competitions. So be it, but that comes down to the likings of critics (us). According to CoP, the judges are looking for this and that in footwork sequences. I believe there are Levels to be scored in relation to this and that. The question is do you trust the judges to evaluate the various machinations of footwork to both sides and in keeping with the speed and character of the music? I don't believe there are any bullets to breakdown the requisite footworks. So like the 6.0 its basically what satisfies the viewer whether fans or judges. No?
There are eight bullets (guidelines) for judges when assigning GOEs for steps. To gain a +2, the guideline is a skater would achieve four bullets; six for a +3. There are also deduction guidelines for judges. For example, if a skater forms a shallow pattern, the recommended deduction is -2 to -3.
Do you trust the judges to be able to evaluate what they see? I'm guessing, from your post, you do not, but only you can answer that.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Thank you for mentioning the bullets for what is called step sequences. I will read them. My skepticism about judges covering the entire scope of bullets is the same as if one would judge these points in 6.0. The bullets are not broken down in the protocols as far as I know, and the same contents were also brought to the attention of the judges in the 6.0 system in their tests for judging.
Do I trust them? I have no choice not to. Do you trust them?
or do you want to see if the footwork draws you in?
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I find I tend to have more (not perfect) faith in the judges and IJS than some; I don't think it excludes me from wanting to see footwork that draws me in.
There are seminars and communications designed to help judges evaluate elements, so I trust their footwork scoring ability more than I trust the footwork scoring ability of a non-judge who asked whether there were bullet-point guidelines to help evaluate step sequences.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
She is travelling here ... http://www.skateforsherryshouse.com/
I know because I have tickets to the event.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
I agree. For all the talk about how slow she is, I rewatched some the ladies free from worlds on the weekend and was shocked at how slow Rachael was. I attended the event, but sat all the way up in the rafters...where I guess I was not so aware of speed. Nobody mentioned it. True, Caroline has had some painfully slow skates, esp in the beginning of last season. But lately she is looking really good. The only thing that really bothers me still he her entrance into the 2 axel.
I hope the poor girl gets her skates back soon. Breaking in a new pair while trying to learn a new program and with a new coach does NOT sound fun.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Nothing wrong with that. You are open on whom you trust and whom you do not trust. Are you happy with all the non-judge posters who call URs when the protocols do not show any downgrade?
She is travelling here ... http://www.skateforsherryshouse.com/
I know because I have tickets to the event.
Oh dear, I hope she gets her skates back. This doesn't mean you won't be attending the event, recording it, reporting back to us, and posting clips online, right?
As to Jenny's blog, I hope she's not dooming Caroline because she has first-hand experience of how Charlene is like as a coach. LA posters on FSU have also reported that Charlene is not a technical coach. In regards to the coaching change itself, it would be unfortunate if Caroline's fractious relationship with her mother had more to do with it than anything else.
I haven't given those posts much thought, nor do I remember the specific posters; I do remember prolific posts that make statements not backed by knowledge. As for Caroline, as others have noted, her biggest concern is probably increasing speed and power, not improving downgraded triples.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
^^^
To be totally honest, I do not know what the meaning of what power in figure skating is in Singles skating.
And speed to me, must be commensurate with the variance of the music.
I will watch Caroline for the variance in speed this upcoming season.
To be totally honest, I do not know what the meaning of what power in figure skating is in Singles skating.
And speed to me, must be commensurate with the variance of the music.
I will watch Caroline for the variance in speed this upcoming season.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Power is mentioned in the criteria for the Skating Skills program component, in the phrase "effortless power and acceleration." I think, as applied to skating, that it means being able to accelerate quickly and efficiently with a minimum of labored stroking.
Irina Slutskaya could get up a head of steam with just a few strokes (but she was critcised for pumping her back to generate acceleration, so the power she demonstarted was not as "effortless" as it could have been.)
This is different from "speed," of course. And it has nothing to do with looking fierce and waving ones arms vigorously.
Irina Slutskaya could get up a head of steam with just a few strokes (but she was critcised for pumping her back to generate acceleration, so the power she demonstarted was not as "effortless" as it could have been.)
This is different from "speed," of course. And it has nothing to do with looking fierce and waving ones arms vigorously.
Have you ever noticed that Mao does a lot of pumping as well? I find it disconcerting!
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
Really? AFAIK, Jenny Kirk has never had a lesson from Charlene Wong, and neither have any of the FSU posters who say she isn't a technical coach. So I wonder what they are basing that on?
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