Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season

I'm on the Caroline Zhang bandwagon, count me in, so far she is the only American that has left me with that "WOW" feeling, right from the get go. Same as Yuna & Yukari. They're the only ones.

If she keeps it up, I say put her on the Olympic Team. This kid has guts, determination, passion, and #1 mental toughness!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

Where is the "sweet-tooth" discussion? (what page) -- haha, I have a bit of a sweet tooth myself so I'm curious.

Nadine said:

I'm on the Caroline Zhang bandwagon, count me in, so far she is the only American that has left me with that "WOW" feeling, right from the get go. Same as Yuna & Yukari. They're the only ones.

If she keeps it up, I say put her on the Olympic Team. This kid has guts, determination, passion, and #1 mental toughness!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

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Welcome to the bandwagon and the best topic at GS
Just so you know, Caroline was far from her best at TEB, even her detractors know she was coming off an injury and had only 3 weeks to prepare.

Hopefully at her next event Caroline will be back to her oldself, blending artistry with wonky jumps the likes of which have never been seen in the world of figure skating.

janetfan said:

Welcome to the bandwagon and the best topic at GS
Just so you know, Caroline was far from her best at TEB, even her detractors know she was coming off an injury and had only 3 weeks to prepare.

Hopefully at her next event Caroline will be back to her oldself, blending artistry with wonky jumps the likes of which have never been seen in the world of figure skating.

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this thread is the reason i haven't registered to post on caroline's own forum! i do like that concept--blending artistry with wonky jumps--but you know she's hardly the first to do that.

anyway, at this point, i just want her to place well enough so that NBC shows her--i just want to see her skate on TV. and to veer off topic (to make this thread like every other thread on GS ) i just want to see mao look happy again, i don't care what she's skating program/music wise.

skfan said:

this thread is the reason i haven't registered to post on caroline's own forum! i do like that concept--blending artistry with wonky jumps--but you know she's hardly the first to do that.

anyway, at this point, i just want her to place well enough so that NBC shows her--i just want to see her skate on TV. and to veer off topic (to make this thread like every other thread on GS ) i just want to see mao look happy again, i don't care what she's skating program/music wise.

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:agree:

That is a nice thought for Mao and maybe we will see her infectious smile again as soon as tomorrow. If not, then certainly ASAP.

Caroline's LP this year is really disappointing... Maybe if she can skate it with a little bit more life (I'm not even asking for joy at this point), like in her SP, then she can go somewhere with it. Her SP, and her exhibition, are what keeps me hoping that she will progress and garner better scores as the season progresses. By the way, if you want to see her SP, and can't find it on youtube (it's been taken down), you can still find it on tudou.com .

Oh, Mao...

Lori is part to blame , the chreography of her LP is really shallow and empty, detached from the music, a major revamp is desperately needed at this stage!

feraina said:

Caroline's LP this year is really disappointing... Maybe if she can skate it with a little bit more life (I'm not even asking for joy at this point), like in her SP, then she can go somewhere with it. Her SP, and her exhibition, are what keeps me hoping that she will progress and garner better scores as the season progresses. By the way, if you want to see her SP, and can't find it on youtube (it's been taken down), you can still find it on tudou.com .

Oh, Mao...

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ANW said:

Lori is part to blame , the chreography of her LP is really shallow and empty, detached from the music, a major revamp is desperately needed at this stage!

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it looks like the same moves from ave maria to different music. granted, if this was yeonah kim doing the lark ascending moves to different cuts of gershwin's concerto in F i would be orgasmic, but ave maria isn't great enough to deserve a reprise.

i think lori is great when inspired, and when she's not inspired... i mean, there's a reason michelle went to kawahara.

janetfan said:

Hopefully at her next event Caroline will be back to her oldself, blending artistry with wonky jumps the likes of which have never been seen in the world of figure skating.

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Unfortunately, Caroline now has a problem. In order for her to have good chance of making the Final, she has to win Skate Canada, which means she has to beat Joannie. If she gets a silver, it's still mathamatically possible to make the Final, but several unlikely things have to happen.

PolymerBob said:

Unfortunately, Caroline now has a problem. In order for her to have good chance of making the Final, she has to win Skate Canada, which means she has to beat Joannie. If she gets a silver, it's still mathamatically possible to make the Final, but several unlikely things have to happen.

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Well, looks like one of those "unlikely things" has already happened...

R.D. said:

Well, looks like one of those "unlikely things" has already happened...

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That's true. Who would've thought that Mao would get 5th here? 2nd and 5th put her out of running -- her scores weren't even high, so she wouldn't be able to win a tiebreak with points if it came down to that.

I think Joannie will win both CoC and SC, Yu-na will win SA, and Miki is likely to win at NHK. So those are your top 3 at GPF. Yukari is likely to have silver at NHK, so she will probably qualify, too.

If Carolina comes back strong at CoC and wins the silver, then she can really wreck havoc with the standings even though she herself can't qualify -- she got 6th at TEB. With Carolina, you just never know! She usually starts the season really weak and then gradually gets stronger through the season, last season was really abnormal for her. The podium at CoC is just really hard to predict, beyond Joannie, who knows who will get silver & bronze among Carolina K, Fumie Suguri, Rachael Flatt, Mirai Nagasu, and even Akiko Suzuki. Akiko came in 2nd at NHK last year, her only GP event, and then 8th at 4CC, behind Rachael but ahead of Alissa.

I guess at NHK the bronze is between Alena Leonova, Ashley Wagner, Laura Lepisto, and possibly Sarah Meier. Another really hard prediction!

At SA, after Yu-na's gold, it's again unpredictable among Sasha Cohen, Rachael Flatt, and Alexe Gilles. I guess Rachael is most likely to have silver, Sasha Bronze, but I don't know, Sasha will probably get a big PCS boost that'll help her, and these days it seems few people besides Yu-na are landing more than 5 triples!

Well, anyway, it's impossible to know now until SC whether Caroline will have a shot at GPF. I don't think she can beat Joannie, unless the latter has an epic meltdown, and I just can't see that happening. She definitely needs to defeat both Mirai and Alissa, though, to stand a chance (and she also has Laura Lepisto & Akiko Suzuki at SC, yikes). She just got such tough assignments this year! Ashley's score this week would've landed her in 4th place last week at TEB!

Seeing so many comments and so much analysis about Mao and her jumping (technique) problems made me wonder about Caroline.
Sure Caroline has the mule kick and many skating purists can't stand it.
Is there a penalty/deduction for the mule kick? If so, how much?

It seems to me, whether she lands it or not Mao's approach and entry into her 3A is actually not a pretty site. In fact it is very disruptive to otherwise fine choreo and it is not smooth looking at all. To me it looks as exaggerated as Caroline's mule kick entrance although Caroline actually has a better looking approach leading into her lutz than Mao has into her 3A.

Maybe I am grasping at straws here but if Mao can do that ragged looking 3A I think I can live another season with Caroline's mule kick.

Ashley's score this week would've landed her in 4th place last week at TEB!

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Actually, given the toughness of that field that would have been a quite respectable finish for her.

At SA, after Yu-na's gold, it's again unpredictable among Sasha Cohen, Rachael Flatt, and Alexe Gilles. I guess Rachael is most likely to have silver, Sasha Bronze, but I don't know, Sasha will probably get a big PCS boost that'll help her, and these days it seems few people besides Yu-na are landing more than 5 triples!

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Just an aside, not directed at anyone in particular but it's just funny to me how everyone was in doubt about Cohen's return and now suddenly folks are talking as if she's ABSOLUTELY going to show up at SA (includIng NBC). I dunno. I'll believe it when I see it...I've so far been just assuming she is not going to factor into this at all.

janetfan said:

Seeing so many comments and so much analysis about Mao and her jumping (technique) problems made me wonder about Caroline.
Sure Caroline has the mule kick and many skating purists can't stand it.
Is there a penalty/deduction for the mule kick? If so, how much?

It seems to me, whether she lands it or not Mao's approach and entry into her 3A is actually not a pretty site. In fact it is very disruptive to otherwise fine choreo and it is not smooth looking at all. To me it looks as exaggerated as Caroline's mule kick entrance although Caroline actually has a better looking approach leading into her lutz than Mao has into her 3A.

Maybe I am grasping at straws here but if Mao can do that ragged looking 3A I think I can live another season with Caroline's mule kick.

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I don't think there's a specific deduction for the mule kick, but it's definitely indicative of flawed technique, so the judges are unlikely to give her any + GOE for it. I'm sure some would knock some GOE off it instead.

I don't think Mao's entry into her 3A is quite as disruptive as Caroline's mule kick....I mean, the long entry into the 3A is less than ideal, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it "ragged," it actually looks rather smooth to me! Besides, telegraphing the 3A is not uncommon, and (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think it's a glaring technical deficiency like the mule kick.

evangeline said:

I don't think there's a specific deduction for the mule kick, but it's definitely indicative of flawed technique, so the judges are unlikely to give her any + GOE for it. I'm sure some would knock some GOE off it instead.

I don't think Mao's entry into her 3A is quite as disruptive as Caroline's mule kick....I mean, the long entry into the 3A is less than ideal, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it "ragged," it actually looks rather smooth to me! Besides, telegraphing the 3A is not uncommon, and (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think it's a glaring technical deficiency like the mule kick.

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Thanks for your explanation E. I think Mao's pre-entry has this strange double clutching look about it - like she is jumping and also hoping to use some brainwaves to get the height and rotations needed. Maybe it is me, but I don't think her entry is attractive. But either are several of Carolines entries..

Like I said maybe I am grasping at straws.

R.D. said:

Actually, given the toughness of that field that would have been a quite respectable finish for her.

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And Caroline finished 4th at TEB also... Of course her score was much lower, but scores only count in a tiebreak for GPF qualification.

LeCygne said:

And Caroline finished 4th at TEB also... Of course her score was much lower, but scores only count in a tiebreak for GPF qualification.

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Exactly, that was the point. And you never know exactly how much exact differences in the score would've played out had they been judged by the same judges and tech panel. The TEB tech panel seemed quite strict about UR's, and also there's a general trend of giving out higher and higher scores throughout the GP seasons. The first one always seems the stingiest.

Well, as it is, Ashley has a silver and Caroline 4th, so that's a huge difference in terms of GPF qualification. Ashley has her destiny in her own friends, while Caroline's future depends a great deal on others.

If i were Caroline, she should go back to Meditation of the Thais !!!!

feraina said:

Exactly, that was the point. And you never know exactly how much exact differences in the score would've played out had they been judged by the same judges and tech panel. The TEB tech panel seemed quite strict about UR's, and also there's a general trend of giving out higher and higher scores throughout the GP seasons. The first one always seems the stingiest.

Well, as it is, Ashley has a silver and Caroline 4th, so that's a huge difference in terms of GPF qualification. Ashley has her destiny in her own friends, while Caroline's future depends a great deal on others.

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All Ashley needs is a silver for a lock in GPF, and a bronze for tie breaker. I think we are going to see a lot of silver and bronze for tie breaker and if you are already in 4th at one of the event, that will be really tough to get into final.

Unless of course no body other Miki, Yuna and Joannie has more than two GP medals, then it's anybody game.