LOL. "It's not ridiculous?" Then is it preposterous? Maybe you're talking about sports where genes can play some kind of role, but as far as ladies skating goes... in general that's not the case. Let me tell you, I've been skating pretty seriously for almost 10 years now and if you build up great basic skills you can be as fast as you want. Stamina is part of it, so are clean, deep edges.Originally Posted by feraina
Putting aside edges/stroking for a moment to zoom in on speed...(no pun intended)
I really don't think her issues lie in her build or lack of innate ability-- I agree with those who say she may lack necessary, comprehensive off ice training. I've been facebook friends with her since before she won her Junior Worlds title-- never once have I seen her post anything about "Man, that was a hard run today!" Or something of that sort. Not that she would necessarily declare it on facebook....but I just never hear about her doing altitude, cardio, etc. Thats what worries me the most. Does she run? If you don't run or do some form of cardio off ice, how can you possibly skate with speed and have enough stamina/endurance to get through your entire program.
I somehow just cant imagine Mingzhu Li saying "Caroline, 2 miles today! I'm timing you...ready, set go!"
Last edited by cornell08; 11-23-2009 at 08:33 PM.
Exactly! She even says in that 2007 interview that she hardly does any off-ice training. All I'm advocating is that she trains harder off-ice, not just more hours but in a better focused/organized way. She needs a personal trainer to help her with that. I don't understand why people are taking issue with that.
Caroline's long at the Taipei JGP was stunning. She is simply not the same skater now. Her mule kick is much worse, and her double axel looks like something I would expect from a Pre-Novice (Intermediate for those in the States) lady. I really hope Caroline sees the light and does something about this before it's too late. I think she is so much better than her performances this year have shown.
So my best friend is a serious figure skater and last year she was running every day but when her coaches found out they told her to stop right away because it uses the wrong muscles and will hurt one's skating. I'm sure some kind of cardio is good for skaters to due but running might not be the best form, it is awfully hard on the knees. I do think skater's have to do off ice work if they want to get better though. I remember watching that show Ice Diaries how all those girls did cardio, weights, and conditioning in addition to daily on-ice training almost every day. Most of them had personal trainers too. There are a lot of Yu Na interviews online and she works out in the gym a lot, lifting weights and doing cardio, and I know Mao and Alissa and Mirai (at least used to-might still) take ballet classes. It just seems like off-ice training is necessary to keep a competitive edge.
Cardio work is definitely helpful for stamina, the trick is to cross train and not overwork any one muscle group or overdo it. Serious running uses less quadriceps and more hamstring, while freestyle skating is the opposite, also hard running puts the knees more at risk than other types of cardio exercise. I seem to recall Kristi Yamaguchi said she used to bicycle a lot for cardio and stamina, esp in the off-season, to augment her other training. Biking is heavily quad work and generally less stress on the knees. Most skaters need a balanced off-ice program that covers stamina, core strength, arm/leg strength, flexibility, and artistry--in order to get to and stay at the very elite ranks. Skaters ignore this aspect of training at their peril.
Wouldn't it be nice if something as simple as off ice training could help Caroline a lot. Anyhow, it's interesting that skating uses mostly quadriceps and that a lot of skaters take ballet, which uses hardly any quadriceps at all. I guess in that case it doesn't hurt one's skating though like running might. Also, isn't 4 to 5 hours of skating a day a bit excessive? I feel as though after 3 hours one's skating would become worse, not better
The difference between Miki Ando and Caroline Zhang is that Miki had good basic skating skills and she also had good techniques on her jumps.
Here is one of Miki's programs when she was at Caroline's age.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cji7_iIAAOU&feature=fvsr
You can clearly see Miki's skating skills are much much better than Caroline.. Plus her jumps were huge with good techniques.
Wow, what a marvelous skate by young Miki! Thanks for posting it. Big difference between her and Caroline.
Ballet uses quads in the leaps, but skaters mostly use ballet to develop posture, line, core strength, artistry/musicality, and not really for muscle development. But ballet, useful though it is for skaters, shouldn't be the ONLY off-ice training component.
Caroline's problems will not be solved only by off-ice training, she also has to relearn her basics and her jumps on ice. Her spins are the element that need the least work right now, so at least that's something on the positive side.
And yes, I think there is a thing as "too much" skating practice. And particularly if it is all freestyle focused.
I think we are all forgetting something here. Caroline's poor technique is not what hurt her at Skate Canada. She had the same technique when she earned 4th place and a standing ovation at Four Continents in February. She had the same poor technique at the World Team Trophy in April when she placed 3rd, secured the win for her team, and won a $30,000 check ....... oh yes, and another standing ovation.
There had to be something else that was going on in Canada. Caroline doesn't let terrible technique stand in her way. Until we know what that "something else" is, we can't say what will fix it.
I think Caroline's technique has gotten worse.
I don't think she'd be able to land the jumps with her technique if she skated faster.
I think whats missing is skating with heart. Which is understandable since she seems lost in her own programs and unable to enjoy herself, let alone emote. She's worried, and she's lost confidence. I actually don't think her skating has deteriorated as much as her psychological strength of mind. And the laggard music (BOTH the SP and LP)....please ditch them.
I never thought i would say this but Caroline's LP is the most boring one I have seen this season.
It almost reminds me of Ryan's LP. Both are skated too slowly but the difference is that Ryan is having fun and emoting great charm to the crowd and judges.
I compare the programs because Caroline's is so dull it might be easier for her to turn it into a parody (of a junior skater) rather than a serious senior level program..
Sorry if that sounds like a harsh judgement and I really do feel bad for the problems Caroline is facing. I am sure her practices are not going well and thus the lack of confidence and espression she is showing on the ice.
I said it before and believe that this being an Olympic year was not a good thing for Caroline.
All summer I read posts saying she shoudn't change and just go for it.
I am not happy to be right about this and the longer Caroline waits to address her technical issues the lower the odds of ever fxing them become.
I wonder if she will continue after this season.........
I think it would be easier to go back to the drawing board and create two new programs (with new choreography) than to try to make these two existing ones work. Charlene doesn't seem too busy now...I would be thrilled if Caroline had Mirai's programs from last season.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks