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Thread: Jennifer Kirk's review on TEB

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    Last edited by ehdtkqorl123; 10-19-2009 at 05:49 PM.

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    Thanks for posting another great article of Jennifer's!

    I agree with everything she said *except* what she said about Mao & her 3A in the SP.

    Seriously, Mao wants the gold, not the silver or the bronze. If she just wanted to medal she would do what Jennifer Kirk stated, basically just play it safe, take no chances, take no risks. But as the old proverbial saying goes:

    it's all...or nothing. Or without risk, there is no reward. Great risk often leads to great reward.

    And in keeping with the famous Olympic Motto/Credo:

    CITIUS, ALTIUS, FORTIUS!

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    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Jenny was a 6.0 skater, and sometimes it really shows in her writing - she's written more than once that "simple but clean" is better. Mao Asada is pushing herself and trying to skate the most difficult programs she can. It's a process, it won't happen immediately - but it deserves respect, not criticism.

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    I don't know, Jenny isn't the only one saying it. All the commetary I've listened to, Kurt, Scott, Pj, they all said the multiple 3A layout is not working for Mao. Not just the commentators, but most FS fans are saying it as well. Even her own fans!

    I think Pj said it best. She said something like the 3A for women is like the quad for men. The jump helps you stay in the game, but you can't win on it alone.

    And I would hardly call a 3-3 simple. Which is the feeling I get from people sometimes when they pit Yu-Na's layout vs Mao's layout. Yu-Na does the same, simple 3-3 she always does, but Mao goes for the more difficult 3A. Not in exactly those words, but more or less.

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    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shallwedansu View Post
    And I would hardly call a 3-3 simple. Which is the feeling I get from people sometimes when they pit Yu-Na's layout vs Mao's layout. Yu-Na does the same, simple 3-3 she always does, but Mao goes for the more difficult 3A. Not in exactly those words, but more or less.
    I wouldn't, either, but look what Jenny's suggesting for Mao:

    If I were Asada, I would instead work on my triple flip-triple loop combination and the consistency and takeoff on my triple lutz. Even if it means doing a simpler triple flip-double toe loop and taking a triple loop out of footwork in her short program, Asada must skate a clean short if she wants to keep herself in contention heading into the long program.

    It is not necessary to skate a clean short; the question is really what the mistakes in the short are, and what your competitors do. Yu-Na has been having a good run, and she was fabulous at TEB, but I for one am not ready to crown her as the next Olympic champion based on how people are skating in October.

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    I agree with everything Jenny has written so far. She is a strong writer. I like her journalism.

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    mmmmm....Donut spin :) Kimmie Fan's Avatar
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    There is a simple explanation for Mao's obsession with 3A.
    3A is her excuse, scapegoat for losing to Yuna.

    She doesn't want to accept the fact that Yuna is better than her.
    She wants to create this illusion that the only reason Yuna is winning is because of her 3A problem.

    She wants people to say, "why did she try that 3A?, without it she could have won against Yuna."
    But Mao knows that's not true.
    Once Mao skates without the 3A nonsense and lose to Yuna, then the myth shatters.
    There is only one queen in women's FS. It ain't Mao.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmie Fan View Post
    There is a simple explanation for Mao's obsession with 3A.
    3A is her excuse, scapegoat for losing to Yuna.

    She doesn't want to accept the fact that Yuna is better than her.
    She wants to create this illusion that the only reason Yuna is winning is because of her 3A problem.

    She wants people to say, "why did she try that 3A?, without it she could have won against Yuna."
    But Mao knows that's not true.
    Once Mao skates without the 3A nonsense and lose to Yuna, then the myth shatters.
    There is only one queen in women's FS. It ain't Mao.


    Wow, you appear to have a lot of insight into Mao's thought processes.

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    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Witt said it best (paraphrasing) you can't win the gold with the SP but you can sure lose it.

    It might be less true under CoP, where the original intent of the SP has disappeared and now merely serves as another round of skating for fans who can't get enough. But the basic principle stands.

    Asada's goal should not be to top Kim in the SP but to stay within striking distance. Her current strategy isn't working and hasn't worked for a long time. Time for a change in plans so that she's not improvising in Vancouver.

    How many functional triples does Asada have now? I'd say she needs at least five to top Kim.

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    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Yu-Na is not "better" than Mao. They are both amazingly talented, in different ways.

    One fact does remain, however. Mao needs the Triple Axel to defeat Yu-Na. This is true.

    I'm not sure why you are trying to turn that fact into a slight against Mao, though, Kimmie Fan. Since when is being able to do the Triple Axel an "excuse"? It is a very difficult element that Yu-Na can not do. Yu-Na also never does the Triple Loop because that jump gives her major problems. Yu-Na is actually rather fortunate that, under CoP, her problems with the Triple Loop don't really matter. She can just do a Double Axel and barely lose any points.

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    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    How many functional triples does Asada have now? I'd say she needs at least five to top Kim.
    She landed all of the six different triples in competition last year. I am confident that she could certainly put all of them into a program. She will get an 'e' mark for her Lutz (unless she tries the "fixed" technique, which will likely just lead to messing the jump up), but oh well. It's still a completed Triple jump if she does it...and she always used to land that jump consistently before she tried to change the technique.

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    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    How many jump approaches she's done and gotten credit for is one thing, how many can she count on? That is how many can normally expect (as opposed to hope) to land in competition? Kim can count on four triples. She can do the loop and does it in practice but she can't count on it and leaves it out. Not the most varied program, but it works for her.

    It seems that Asada can't count on the 3A anymore, from you wrote, it seems that she can count on her flutz but not the lutz, what about the flip, loop, salchow and toe-loop?

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    Lambiel is the best!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    How many jump approaches she's done and gotten credit for is one thing, how many can she count on? That is how many can normally expect (as opposed to hope) to land in competition? Kim can count on four triples. She can do the loop and does it in practice but she can't count on it and leaves it out. Not the most varied program, but it works for her.

    It seems that Asada can't count on the 3A anymore, from you wrote, it seems that she can count on her flutz but not the lutz, what about the flip, loop, salchow and toe-loop?
    That's my biggest question, too.

    From what I've seen, at least from this TEB,
    3A : not consistent enough,
    lutz : still no, (flutz, I guess yes)
    loop : often downgraded as a combo jump,
    salchow : didn't try
    top-loop : good
    flip : garners points, but was mistakenly called lutz by Scott Hamilton and Kurt Browning, so there must be some issues there??

    So for +GOEs or at least for no deduction, she can count on flip and toe-loop, it appears, but the rest seem in need of major work.
    Poor girl, that 3A must be really messing with her head.

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    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    If she only worries about doing the 3Axel as a solo jump, not in combination, that should help quite bit with the consistency. There will always be some risk involved, but that's how it goes with this kind of element.

    The 3Loop in combination also carries a bit of risk, but she has pulled it off plenty of times. In terms of the solo 3Loop - it is gorgeous and completely consistent. The downgrade she received on the jump at TEB is a major fluke and that tech specialist simply MUST have hit a button incorrectly. She wasn't even close to being a 1/4 turn short on rotation? It was a perfectly executed jump.

    Her 3Sal should be fine too. The technique is completely there. She rotates the jump with no problem. She had some trouble with the jump when she tried doing it directly after a Spiral last year, so if she makes the entrance simple and goes for the jump earlier in the program, it should be no problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    She had some trouble with the jump when she tried doing it directly after a Spiral last year, so if she makes the entrance simple and goes for the jump earlier in the program, it should be no problem.

    Actually it's Yuna who did 3S directly after spirals and had some problem.
    The one Mao did after spirals was 3T.

    Anyway, it was another interesting article from Jenny.

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