Rachael Flatt | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Rachael Flatt

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
The USFSA didn't really "protect" Rachael. As the only seeded U.S. lady (5th at worlds) she was all but guaranteed Skate America, and no matter where she went she was 100% guaranteed that she could never face more than one oif the top six. QUOTE]

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."
Michael Corleone

OK - thanks for the brush up on the rules. That actually makes sense to me.

I think Caroline has to be tough and make a good showing at TEB. Rachael has to outskate Sasha at SA or the impression may stick in the judges minds - that Sasha is better than Rachael.
That is if GP's actually do count for anything. :)
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Rachael has to outskate Sasha at SA or the impression may stick in the judges minds - that Sasha is better than Rachael.
That is if GP's actually do count for anything. :)

I think the one for whom the Grand Prix is most important for is Sasha. If she does not finish at least in the top half at Eric Bompard, and then turns around and loses to Rachael and a couple of others at Skate America, the feeling will be that her comeback has failed. In that case I don't thinbk she will get any favors at nationals.

If she withdraws from either of her GP events, after all the drama, people will say, here we go again.

Rachael and Caroline, on the other hand -- we already know what they can do. If they come out in the fall in new and improved versions, so much the better. If they just do so-so in the Grand Prix, maybe pick up a bronze or two, well, OK, whatever -- on to Nationals.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
ITA with MM's first and last sentences.

But I think how Sasha does in the GP's could play out differently. IMO she gets a bit of a break at TEB since it's her first competition in 3.5 years - esp. if she struggles in the SP and has a great FP, but even the other way around could be fine. She needs to show brilliance, not to get on the podium.

As for SA, well, she does need to get on the podium and she needs to either beat Rachael or come very close. Mainly she needs to improve on TEB and, once again, show brilliance.

So if she comes in 4th or 5th at TEB and 2nd or 3rd at SA, I think she'll be in good shape for Nationals. If people are writing her off, so much the better. She's something of an underdog this season - maybe that will work for her. I'm fine with her peaking after New Year's. ;)
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
^ On the other hand, the opposite might happen. Sasha might go to Paris with the eye of the tiger and cut the favorites down to size. Win Skate America outright and turn U.S. Nationals into a coronation instead of a competition. :cool:
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
^ On the other hand, the opposite might happen. Sasha might go to Paris with the eye of the tiger and cut the favorites down to size. Win Skate America outright and turn U.S. Nationals into a coronation instead of a competition. :cool:
If she doesn't cut them down and Caroline creeps in with a bronze, Sasha may withdraw from SA and just skate US Nationals. That's all she has to do is look competitively impressive at USNats. We have learned from previous posts that US Nats will weigh heaviest for naming the Oly Team.

As for Rachael - never my favorite, but I have to admit since I first saw her, I've seen the most improvement of any single skater for 2010. Not sure it will be enough but she's a fighter.
 

Chrystia Mee

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Rachael is wicked consistent with solid technique. That's what I think makes her so successful right now. Unfortunately consistency is the achilles heel of the US ladies right now. I love Rachael's personality and enjoy her skating, but I don't think she has the same star quality from some of our previous greats.

To me, I feel like the US wants Caroline and Mirai to be our new Michelle/Sasha figures. However their inconsistency lands them short of someone like Rachael who refuses to be intimidated when she skates. But she is probably one of the smart choices for our team this year.
 

feraina

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
To me, I feel like the US wants Caroline and Mirai to be our new Michelle/Sasha figures. However their inconsistency lands them short of someone like Rachael who refuses to be intimidated when she skates.

This idea that Rachael is more consistent than Caroline is a myth. Caroline has landed at least as many triples as Rachael over the past two seasons, if not more, and certainly more 3-3's. Rachael's consistency is quite over-rated.

On the other hand, I think Rachael's presentation and skating abilities are a bit under-rated. She improved a lot in both toward the end of both of the past two seasons, and her PCS reflected that. While she doesn't display this innate "it" factor to most people, I think she has the potential to develop into a strong, confident, powerful skater like Joannie Rochette. And the way PCS is designed, someone like Joannie can garner a very high score despite not being naturally graceful or musical (of course she's very good in both departments by now, after so many years of practice and training and good coaching, but it was something she has had to work hard at).
 

mandykane21

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
I think the reason Racheal is seen as more consistant than Caroline is because Caroline has at times not come through when everyone thought she would. She was supposed to be a shoe-in for the 2007 Junior National title, then didn't she have a mistakes in the short at 2008 Nationals that left her in seventh? Also, there was the short at this years Junior Worlds. Rachael has at times, not been her best, but she has never had a meltdown. Bad for her in having to create a new combo in the short or UR'ing her jumps sometimes. She usually good for doing exactly what you expect her to do.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Rachael is wicked consistent with solid technique. That's what I think makes her so successful right now. Unfortunately consistency is the achilles heel of the US ladies right now. I love Rachael's personality and enjoy her skating, but I don't think she has the same star quality from some of our previous greats.
Do the judges weigh heavily on Star quality more than solid jumps? What if MK came back. Isn't she the definition of Star quality? Sasha never beat her in the LP except in Moscow. Which skaters today satisfy the CoP?

To me, I feel like the US wants Caroline and Mirai to be our new Michelle/Sasha figures. However their inconsistency lands them short of someone like Rachael who refuses to be intimidated when she skates. But she is probably one of the smart choices for our team this year.
I'm not so sure about the USFS wanting anyone in particular except Sasha to carry the torch at the conclusion of the Olys. She got her two favorite GPs. Becky Bereswill and Alexei Gilles just got one each.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
I like watching Rachel's arms and hands as well as how expressive she is in her face. Her spins improved this past year even though she will never have the flexibility for great spins or spirals. Her jumps still look a little slow and labored to me, but she lands them no problem.

Rachael seems like a very "real" person as well as being very smart (amazing school record). I don't think she has the "it" factor required to be national champion, but then again Kimmie won without it.
 

feraina

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Rachael seems like a very "real" person as well as being very smart (amazing school record). I don't think she has the "it" factor required to be national champion, but then again Kimmie won without it.

Kimmie won in a year that had a very weak field. Plus, there are tough under-rotation and edge deduction rules in place now that really hurt her. She probably would've not won last year or this year with her winning National's skates back then.

On the other hand, I do think Rachael can win National's, "it" factor or not.
 
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janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I'm not so sure about the USFS wanting anyone in particular except Sasha to carry the torch at the conclusion of the Olys. She got her two favorite GPs. Becky Bereswill and Alexei Gilles just got one each.

But Becky and Alexei each got one. One plus one equals two,, right?
So it is practically the same thing :laugh:

And actually, it is a flag that an athlete carries into the opening and closing ceremonies Joe.
And the US athlete given that honor is selected by the the US Olympic Committee, not US Skating.
All the torch stuff is typically handled by the host nation. Look for Wayne Gretsky to be one of the finalist for the torch lighting. Maybe Liz Manley, Karen Magnusson if she is still able.......but definitely a Canadian sporting legend will have that honor.
There is one change being considered for the LP though. As a "returning" skater Sasha may be given two chances at her LP if she has trouble with her first LP.
But Plushy will only have one chance since he is the reigning Gold medalist.
 
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PolymerBob

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Remember, there are rules, but there is also this powerful, mysterious committee that meets behind closed doors, protected by armed guards, that can still grant Becky and Alexe another spot ..................

........................ regardless of rules. :biggrin:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Remember, there are rules, but there is also this powerful, mysterious committee that meets behind closed doors, protected by armed guards, that can still grant Becky and Alexe another spot ..................

........................ regardless of rules. :biggrin:

The rules allow either Becky or Alexe to be "TBA" at Skate America (or Bebe), or some other skater altogether like Laney Diggs if she goes senior.

I think the USFSA will wait and see who does the best in their first event before giving that one out.

No bending of the rules is necessary. That is just what these TBA's are for -- so that the host federation can wait and see and make their decision later based on fuller information.

Just like the TBAs at TEB, reserved for two more French skaters. They probably want to wait until after various summer competitions before deciding which two French skaters to send, after Candice Didier.
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I don't think [Rachel] has the "it" factor required to be national champion

When since the "it" factor is REQUIRED to win? I thought all you had to do was be better than the other guys.
 
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janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
When since the "it" factor is REQUIRED to win? I thought all you had to do was be better than the other guys.

Someone just expressing an opinion.
I was happy and proud of Rachael after her LP at world's and a 5th place finish was more than respectable for her first trip. She did make a couple of mistakes in her SP so even though she is very reliable, anyone can make mistakes.
It feels like many fans here would like to see Racahel and Caroline as the two who will go to Vancouver from USA. But I have a feeling that won't happen.
 

MasterB

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Lets for one minute assume that each skater will skate their perfect best. I will place them in the following order:

GOLD. Kwan - assuming she returns, with her presence alone can bring the house down.

SILVER - Sasha, Flatt, Caroline, Nagasu, Czisny

BRONZE - Wagner, Bebe, Gilles, Hughes, Meissner

All others


However, staying with the topic of Rachel Flatt I feel that she was robbed the last two nationals. Realistically she should have won 2008 and definitely 2009. I don't know what else she could do to get higher scores other than do a quad and triple axel. She has great musicality but, her style is not for everyone. I hope she picks better music this coming season. I thinks she understands that she is never the favorite among the American girls. At 17, she will not gain any more flexibility so forget that. Her revenge is to skate clean, buy a pretty dress and select pleasing music.
 

Particle Man

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Lets for one minute assume that each skater will skate their perfect best. I will place them in the following order:

GOLD. Kwan - assuming she returns, with her presence alone can bring the house down.

SILVER - Sasha, Flatt, Caroline, Nagasu, Czisny

BRONZE - Wagner, Bebe, Gilles, Hughes, Meissner

Kind of silly. Sasha and maybe Alissa would be on top if they skated their "perfect best" since their only serious problem has always been the inability to complete all their planned elements. I'm not sure whether Michelle Kwan would be on par with that under CoP --- it depends on whether her perfect best would include enough high-point technical elements. And I don't think the new girls would have the polish to compete directly with any of the aforementioned three skating "perfectly."
 

Andalusia

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
I thinks she understands that she is never the favorite among the American girls.

I'm curious; why do you think this? She might not be the favourite internationally, but nationally I'd say she is. She's right on track to make the Olympic team and win Nationals: almost guaranteed a spot at the GPF due to her assignments; placing a respectable 5th at her 1st Worlds; being the bridesmaid at 2 Nats in a row. Rachael's ripe for rewards, you could say. She's the only surefire bet the USFSA has at this point because she has no glaring weaknesses; Caroline would be right alongside Rachael, too, but she leaves room for judges to mark her down because of her iffy technique.

Right now, Rachael is the most expressive of the U.S. ladies in competition; this belief has been further strengthened by what I saw at the WTT. I'm also 99.99% sure Rachael will make the Olympic team.

That being said, I'm not happy both her new programs are choreographed by Lori Nichol. Bad move, Rachael, bad move.
 
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