Dr. Zhivago- breakout music?
In watching some videos the other day, I noticed something about Dr. Zhivago. It seems to be the music that helps US skaters have a breakout season!
1995- Nicole Bobek won her first US title using this music
2004- Johnny Weir wins the US title and puts to rest the disastrous year from 2003
2009- Alissa Czisny won US Nationals after her 8th try
I just find this to be interesting. It seems to be the music for skaters who seemingly are done for, to make a miraculous comeback. Thoughts?
The fair thing then would be to have a coin toss over the music - heads Michelle, tails Sasha.
Originally Posted by maoyuna
Last edited by janetfan; 06-05-2009 at 02:40 PM.
Rooting for the divas with Kwanford
That's brilliant. I can totally see Sasha going for that given her penchant for Russian music. (It's Russian enough. Sorry, Monsieur Jarre!)
PS: Welcome to Goldenskate, maoyuna! Nice to see you're not caught up in the fanbot wars!
Last edited by Spun Silver; 06-05-2009 at 02:58 PM.
Zvivago is simplistic music and very good for skaters who really can't perform the emotions of a great piece of music like some written by Ricard Straus. Most skaters are limited in the emotional department. They are much too young and inexperienced in life, but the pretty music gets the fans.
The alternatives to Zvivago, Roti's R&J, Thais, and all those pieces of music with those sugary themes would be Carmen. Also very good for skaters of young age. It shows a variety of movement to those tunes. At least one can judge the skater's ability for timing and rhythm
Bona Fide Member
That's very condescending! And totally untrue, to boot.
Originally Posted by Joesitz
One might say the opposite, that only artistically talented skaters like Johnny and Alissa can pull off this beautiful piece. That's ridiculous, to imply that these skaters, of all skaters, "can't perform the emotions of a great piece of music" and thus sticking with some "simplistic music" like Dr. Zhivago!
By the way, I was rewatching Johnny's old programs the other day (and really enjoying them), and it struck me that Alissa has been picking Johnny's old music a lot: Dr. Zhivago, The Swan. What's she going to do next? Otonal? That remains my favorite of Johnny's programs. Suguri didn't do it justice, but maybe Alissa could.
Originally Posted by Joesitz
Doctor Zhivago is just one of many great scores composed by Maurice Jarre. It is hardly simplistic which is why it was a Grammy and Academy Award winning score in 1965. Other notable scores by Jarre include:
1962 Lawrence of Arabia Won the 1962 Academy Award for Best Music score
1965 Doctor Zhivago Grammy Award / Academy Award for Best Music Score
1966 Is Paris Burning?
1966 Grand Prix
1970 Ryan's Daughter
1971 Plaza Suite
1972 The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean
1974 The Island at the Top of the World
1976 The Last Tycoon
1977 Mohammad, Messenger of God Nominated for Best Music, Original Score
1980 Shōgun (TV miniseries)
1982 The Year of Living Dangerously (interesting electronic music score)
1984 A Passage to India Won the 1984 Academy Award for Best Score
1985 Witness Nominated for Best Music, Original Score
1985 Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome
1986 The Mosquito Coast
1987 No Way Out
1987 Fatal Attraction
1988 Gorillas in the Mist: Nominated for Best Music, Original Score
1989 Dead Poets Society British Academy Awards, 1989, Best Original Music
1990 Jacob's Ladder
1990 Ghost Nominated for Best Music Academy Award
1993 Mr. Jones
1995 A Walk in the Clouds Golden Globe, 1995, Best Original Score
1996 The Sunchaser
2000 I Dreamed of Africa
He wrote more than what I listed and people in the music industry consider him an extraordinary writer.
L'art pour l'art
Well, movie soundtracks are often more simplistic than, let's say classical music. That's a fact, I can prove that. They are not written to be complex, they are written with the intention of underlining certain scenes in movies. They are written in order to evoke clear emotions that are relevant to the action of the movies.
Originally Posted by feraina
And yes, I think it's a lot easier to perform to these kinds of music than to certain kinds of classical music. Especially if you have this controlled lyrical polished and precise style of Czisny and Weir (continue the list with Zhang, Asada etc.), they can just skate their natural style, they don't have to be on the beat of the music. Of course you need this style to begin with, but just put Zhivago on to Zhang's Ave Maria, Johnny's Notre Dame, Asada's Claire de la Lune... It always looks good, it often evokes the right emotions.
Same actually goes for one of my all-time favourites, Yagudin. He used the same kind of soundtrack over and over again. Majestic simple music, like in Gladiator and Man in the Iron Mask, with lyrical slow section. It suited his powerful skating style perfectly and everyone was in awe.
True versatility is difficult to achieve in my opinion. I am a fan (obviously) but I think Lambiel is a true versatile skater. You can't exchange the music of the Four Seasons with the music of Poèta, or the music of Romeo&Juliet with one of his jazzy numbers. Takahashi is pretty good too. (Amodio, Chan and Rippon are my candidates for the next generation)
Last edited by Medusa; 06-05-2009 at 06:27 PM.
I think Labiel was unique and no one came close. Takahashi is not up there but he is good too. And a favorite for next season. I cannot forget the one GP he skated Fantom of the Opera program with stomach pain and his face and reaction in straight steps at the end. He won me there.
Originally Posted by Medusa
Those are interesting points medusa. One of the things musicians learn is that sometimes it is harder to play a slow simple melody beautifully - than a faster one full of many notes. Perhaps that is why school figures were also considered so difficult. Simple but also had to be more exact.
Music composed for films differs in style from "classical" music because it must appeal to a wider audience. But it is also the natural successor to the great opera music of the 19th century. Most opera scores are composed for the same reason film scores are written - to help tell a story. They are also similar in that they are commissioned works written - not out of some moment of inspiration - but strictly for money. Like film composers, Beethoven did not stare at the moon or a beautiful lake for inspiration. He wrote when he had a commission and was getting paid for his work.
In today's music world the most competitive area of composing is in the film/TV idiom. It is where the most talented writers work, if they can break through and get a chance.
The composer in residence of the Philadelphia Orchestra (my city) makes less in his five year contract than John Williams makes for a single film score.
Not all classical music is complex and I am sure you don't need me to tell you that. But almost all of it was written for some commercial purpose and there are quite a few jokes about the music of Hadyn and Mozart because it can be so simple. Doesn't mean it is not beautiful, just not very complex - after trying to master the solos of Charlie Parker or playing the music of Antonio Carlos Jobim like a Brasilian - and not like I have heard it played in parts of Europe.
Music changes as society changes. Popular music from today is nothing like popular music from 1909 just as 1909 is so different from 1809. Does that mean that the art songs by Schubert or Schumann are better or more complex than the popular songs of George Gershwin? I can tell you some of the Gershwin stuff can get difficult and some of the Schubert/Schumann stuff can be played by any good 3rd year student. But just like "it" factor this is all so very subjective.
Because I am not much of skater I can't tell you which style of music is easiest for certain skaters to skate to. As a musician and music publisher I can say in my opinion there is alot of extremely well crafted and very beautiful film music that has been written. Skating is about motion and so distinct because of the gliding not possible in Dance. Whether music comes from film or the classical repertoire is not what makes it better or harder to skate to. "Danse Macabre" works so well because you can feel the motion in the music. Clair de Lune has a totally different feel that is more sensual. Both can be skated to but the choreo will be much different. "Lara's Theme" from "Zhivago" also has a feeling of motion (as do many waltzes) which is why skaters may like using it. i don't think it is used because of anything doing with "simplicity" but for the fact that it is a beautiful well known melody with a rhythmic motion that is good to skate to.
I also believe that if we could bring back a couple of "classical" composers they would probably be impressed by the beauty, power and drama of scores like "Lawrence of Arabia" or "Doctor Zhivago." Good music is good music regardless of why it was created - and being "popular" does not automatically make something crass or vulgar.
I enjoyed your comments and sorry if I went too far - off - or out with this response.
I could talk about this - music - for hours, and skating too
Last edited by janetfan; 06-06-2009 at 08:35 AM.
I won't argue about whether or not it's easier to interpret film scores as opposed to classical music, but I will say it's a whole lot easier to cut them. Film music is composed as a series of moments, rather than as a coherent, developed whole. When my daughter skated, it was a lot easier for me to make a 4 minute program out of a film soundtrack than it was to condense a 20-minute tone poem. With the film scores, I could even rearrange the clips so that particular skating moves would fall at certain places in the program. It's much more difficult to edit classical music and retain its integrity.
Figure Skating Is A Dangerous Sport