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Thread: Dr. Zhivago- breakout music?

  1. #16
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    On the contrary, great post!
    Thankyou mathman. BTW, it is not an accident that so much opera and film music are used by skaters. Both are easier to cut than music from the symphonic repertoire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    That's very condescending! And totally untrue, to boot.
    I did say most
    Who would do justice to Tschaikowsky's Violin Concerto? An accomplished violinist? an accomplished ballerino? a figure skater?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I did say most
    Who would do justice to Tschaikowsky's Violin Concerto? An accomplished violinist? an accomplished ballerino? a figure skater?
    My answer would be: D = all of the above (and don't forget a "flamenco" dancer .
    Of course you are right to suggest a violinist in the most literal sense .
    It might be interesting to think of which skater(s) could do the most justice to Tschaikowsky's Violin Concerto.
    Who would you like to see skate to it?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Thankyou mathman. BTW, it is not an accident that so much opera and film music are used by skaters. Both are easier to cut than music from the symphonic repertoire.
    Here is a question that I have always wondered about. Has any figure skater ever skated to Haydn? I don't think so. To me, Haydn is THE MAN and the next hundred years was more or less just piling on ornamentation. Sort of like Louis Armstrong and jazz.

    By the way, why doesn't anyone skate to the hot fives and hot sevens?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Here is a question that I have always wondered about. Has any figure skater ever skated to Haydn? I don't think so. To me, Haydn is THE MAN and the next hundred years was more or less just piling on ornamentation. Sort of like Louis Armstrong and jazz.

    By the way, why doesn't anyone skate to the hot fives and hot sevens?
    Not many skaters seem to be as good at jazz interpretation. Seems Orser and Browning and even Hamilton were quite adept at it. I think there is also a problem with the motion feeling from certain styles of jazz music.At times it is not as fluid as other types of music. Or, you find a great groove but without tempo changes skaters like. But that is all in a very general sense. How about Evan skating to some Thelonious Monk (Browning could do it though).
    I would also say consider the popularity of jazz music today. For encores, it seems the kids love those cheesey soft rock ballads or some livlier form of rock.
    People ask for Led Zeppelin but not Dixieland, or bebop.
    Maybe I could see Boitano skating to "Sketches from Spain" or some of the moodier, slightly impressionistic sounding jazz.
    That is an intersting but difficult question to consider - about hot five and other jazz styles.

    Hadyn - they didn't call him "Papa" for nothing as he did nurture and help train many of the great composers who followed him.
    Scott Hamilton in his heyday could have done something great with the "Surprise Symphony" or the "Toy Symphony."

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    My answer would be: D = all of the above (and don't forget a "flamenco" dancer .
    Of course you are right to suggest a violinist in the most literal sense .
    It might be interesting to think of which skater(s) could do the most justice to Tschaikowsky's Violin Concerto.
    Who would you like to see skate to it?
    Well to begin with, I liked Medusa's reply the most, but hey that's me, and I am not going to change.

    The topic is about breakthrough music, not Johnny Weir who already brokethrough with Otonal..

    I still contend that movie background music, although so melodious, has nothing on the more serious composers. One of the great movies scorers (can't remember his name) in his acceptance speech at the Oscars said. First of all I would like to thank Beethoven, Bach, Wagner, Tschaikowsky for assisting me in this endeavor. (the audience roared with laughter)

    It's difficult not to be influenced by Der Fliegende Hollander when scoring a Sea Epic. No?

    I'm not putting movie background music down. I think it is fine for figure skaters. (stay away from Wagner).

    By the way, other than Plush's violinist friend, has anyone ever composed a piece of music for figue skating? The Americans used to when a new Ice Show hit town, but that was when show skating was a must.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Well to begin with, I liked Medusa's reply the most, but hey that's me, and I am not going to change.

    The topic is about breakthrough music, not Johnny Weir who already brokethrough with Otonal..

    I still contend that movie background music, although so melodious, has nothing on the more serious composers. One of the great movies scorers (can't remember his name) in his acceptance speech at the Oscars said. First of all I would like to thank Beethoven, Bach, Wagner, Tschaikowsky for assisting me in this endeavor. (the audience roared with laughter)

    It's difficult not to be influenced by Der Fliegende Hollander when scoring a Sea Epic. No?

    I'm not putting movie background music down. I think it is fine for figure skaters. (stay away from Wagner).

    By the way, other than Plush's violinist friend, has anyone ever composed a piece of music for figue skating? The Americans used to when a new Ice Show hit town, but that was when show skating was a must.
    I also liked medusa's reply. The topic actually was "Is Doctor Zhivago Breakout Music - meaning does it bring good results. (answer is yes per topic statement)

    As far as background music, many Film soundtracts become bestsellers when they hit the record (or is it CD) stores. Rocky, Starwars, Titanic, 2001 Space Oddesey - ha ha - R. Strauss, as it turns out had enough talent to be good enough for film music. How about Barry Lyndon using "Sarabande" by GF Handel? And let's not forget Barber's Adagio - so moving as the BACKGROUND music for "Platoon." Does that mean Barber or his Adagio are lacking integrity? Or are second rate? Seems Barber's Adagio was also played at a key moment in 20th century American history when it was performed at the funeral of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    I could go on ....and on....and ...on.
    Last edited by janetfan; 06-07-2009 at 04:54 PM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    By the way, other than Plush's violinist friend, has anyone ever composed a piece of music for figue skating? The Americans used to when a new Ice Show hit town, but that was when show skating was a must.
    If you search on the web there are quite a few "composers" out there who advertise that they will compose original music for projects like figure skating, gymnastics routines, home movies, etc. I can't recall any particular examples, but my impression of the few pieces of original music that I have seen presented by skaters -- they are just not very good.

    About unique music versus war horses, I confess to being of two minds. I liked the off-the-beaten-path music that Lori Nichol found for the young Michelle Kwan.

    But then, too, I never get tired of Carmen. There has to be a reason why certain songs are chosen over and over by skaters at every level as the best vehicle for carrying their presentation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I

    But then, too, I never get tired of Carmen. There has to be a reason why certain songs are chosen over and over by skaters at every level as the best vehicle for carrying their presentation.
    Key factors not in any order would be: ease/possibilty of editing/cuts, tempo changes, or a good motion feeling like in a waltz, compatabilty of music to skater's style and personality, audience APPEAL
    Last edited by janetfan; 06-07-2009 at 04:39 PM.

  10. #25
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    ^^^

    I would love to see a skater with an original piece of music. It would be risky.

    Kwan is Kwan and her ability to snap up different pieces of music is lengendary as she is.

    Carmen has all the tunes with their variey of tempos (or tempi?) to satisfy the CoP, if there is a judge looking for changes of tempo. It's not in the protocols just in the bullets? Personally, I do not like it. it's more like a Broadway show to me than an opera, and it is so often used in figure skating that it makes the sport appear limp in the music department. No?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Personally, I do not like it. it's more like a Broadway show to me than an opera, and it is so often used in figure skating that it makes the sport appear limp in the music department. No?
    Well, you know a lot about music and a lot about skating. I think for the average spectator, it is a comfort to hear those familiar old tunes. Hey, isn't that the Toreador's song?

    As for Broadway skating music, West Side Story is another one I never get tired of.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    ^^^

    Carmen has all the tunes with their variey of tempos (or tempi?) to satisfy the CoP, if there is a judge looking for changes of tempo. It's not in the protocols just in the bullets? Personally, I do not like it. it's more like a Broadway show to me than an opera, and it is so often used in figure skating that it makes the sport appear limp in the music department. No?
    Before anyone " boos me loudly" I could see Yuna doing a "Carmen" that would become the definitive "Carmen of all Carmens."
    Think of her look and costume from "El Tango de Roxanne." For me it was close to perfection. Then think of her dazzling musicality and strong skating technique.
    I still have a hunch that Team Yuna is looking at her place in history. Her retake on "Michelle's" Scheherazade was successful and will not be so easy to top. I could see her doing the same thing with "Katerina's" Carmen.
    Taking great iconic performances from the past, re-doing them and making them your own is not the worst idea when it comes to leaving your own lasting imprint on your sport.
    I always admired Michelle so much for being original with her music choices - but have no problem seeing a skater as great as Yuna Kim paying homage to the skaters before her even as she takes the sport of figure skating to new heights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Before anyone " boos me loudly" I could see Yuna doing a "Carmen" that would become the definitive "Carmen of all Carmens."
    Think of her look and costume from "El Tango de Roxanne." For me it was close to perfection. Then think of her dazzling musicality and strong skating technique.
    I still have a hunch that Team Yuna is looking at her place in history. Her retake on "Michelle's" Scheherazade was successful and will not be so easy to top. I could see her doing the same thing with "Katerina's" Carmen.
    Taking great iconic performances from the past, re-doing them and making them your own is not the worst idea when it comes to leaving your own lasting imprint on your sport.
    I always admired Michelle so much for being original with her music choices - but have no problem seeing a skater as great as Yuna Kim paying homage to the skaters before her even as she takes the sport of figure skating to new heights.
    Yuna chose Scheherazade, not Michelle's Scheherazade. Michelle had many brilliant programs, but she won't be remembered for Scheherazade.

    I wonder how well Yuna would skate to Salome, The Red Violin, Lyra Angelica, or Aranjuez???

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruin714 View Post
    Yuna chose Scheherazade, not Michelle's Scheherazade. Michelle had many brilliant programs, but she won't be remembered for Scheherazade.

    I wonder how well Yuna would skate to Salome, The Red Violin, Lyra Angelica, or Aranjuez???
    Probably brilliantly
    Particularly since Yuna has said she grew up watching and studying all of Michelle's programs she already has skated the great "Michelle" programs listed above in her head an on the ice as well.
    I always remember "Michelle's" Scheherazade because the music is one of my favorite tone poems and Michelle has always been one of my favorite skaters. One of my favorite skates by Michelle was at '95 Worlds when she was only 14. Maybe you have forgotten that one but I doubt if I ever will. And I will never forget the first time I saw Michelle skate Live. It was 1994 and 13 year old Michelle stole the show from Nancy and Oksana that evening.
    Well she certainly stole the show from Nancy. Oksana, only a couple of months after winning the OGM was such an exquisite skater.
    I happen to be a big fan of Yuna Kim, Caroline Zhang and many other skaters.
    Last edited by janetfan; 06-07-2009 at 07:57 PM.

  15. #30
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    I guess programs are created as music to the skater and skater to the music. Sometimes a music is chosen to suit the character of the skater and sometimes the skater can actually perform better to a certain music no matter what the skater's character is. Most of the time, the skaters are the reason why music is remembered. Take for example operas, people are now not so ignorant of what operas are unlike before when operas were only exclusive to the theatres and/or elites. An example to that is Shizuka Arakawa's Olympic program. Another group, but not of figure skating, is the IL Divo bringing opera songs to the public, appealing to different ages.

    What I'm trying to say is that the skater connects the audience to the music with their performance/interpretation of the music. If the skater performs badly to a very good music, the appeal/magic may be minimal or none at all as to one's expectation and vice versa.

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